The highlight for me today, as it has been with each of the original stories, was hearing Ben’s origin story. I knew something of it, but actually hearing Ben talk about it was tremendously affecting. Thank you, Ben, for that, and thanks to all of you for all you do and all you are.
Wait, I love you guys and appreciate your work, so don't think I am actually mad, but, to say that something stupid that originated on the east coast is MORE stupid in the midwest is STUPID. First of all, how do you get more stupid than stupid? Also, aren't the people who make up stupidness the stupidest, almost by definition? Almost all of the institutions that have dreamed up and propagated this incoherent ideology are located on the east coast. There are plenty of people in the midwest, as everywhere, who understand that gender ideology is stupid. Please don't project the stupidity of the trans movement onto us uniquely, that is the height of absurdity! You can't get stupider than stupid, and it is equally stupid everywhere! Thank you for listening. :-)
Just heard that part of the podcast and LOLed. And I get V Dale's point, and agree, though maybe Ben was thinking not actually dumber but more naive, coming a little later to something considered the "in" thing on the east and west coasts, so it appears stupid in a different way. But definitely, being from the east coast myself, nothing could be stupider (more stupid?) than some of the ridiculous stuff coming from elite "woke" universities and social circles here. So much more to this, but what a thought-provoking discussion. Thanks!
As somebody who grew up in the Midwest, I think there's a greater insecurity among the local progressive social-cultural elite, which means an extra susceptibility to received nonsense. Nonsense *production* is a whole other problem.
Thanks for defending the Midwest, V Dale. :) I've lived in Midwest for the past 25 years and lived on the East Coast before. Stupid is about the same, ideology is the same, the main difference is that in NY y'all wear sneakers (and don't say y'all) and we wear tennis shoes.
Didn't see the zoom image this time (which is fine, I usually listen while straightening up or exercising).
Ben, your assessment of humanities departments is not exaggerated. I did a PhD in one in the early 1990s and ran into all sorts of problems precisely because I thought seminar was where we were supposed to try out ideas! Nothing political or like today's hot buttons, but I was still blacklisted by one professor, told I was "headstrong" by another professor, etc. I was so shocked that we were all supposed to toe a line! I was naive.
The professor who tried to blacklist me discovered "queer theory" in 1993--at the time I thought oh man she's jumped on the latest "in" thing, hope it's over soon. LOL.
I regret to say I am still pseudonymous on here because 90 percent of my colleagues are on the trans train. I have given up even checking Blue Sky because all I see are rage posts about the transphobic Republicans.
Ben, your story resonates with me so much. I didn’t anticipate it would as a 40 something Jewish bisexual woman from Canada. The way you explained how people get drawn into these ideologies through fear and assuming that if they don’t get it they are not as smart and their analysis is wrong is something I have seen too.
I think it’s possible that those of us in recovery who have used certain models to help us through our addictions have a type of skepticism around these this schools of thought. While I do not adhere strictly to this program anymore, much of what I learnt was how to be responsible, how to be wrong, and that I have agency, have been deeply integrated into my life and I see victimhood culture directly at odds with what I learnt in the church basements.
I often wonder if it’s possible to bring aspects of recovery to society at large.
Looking forward to hearing Jamie’s origin story next week.
I loved Lisa's comments about the body/brain: we need to make this point more often!
Young people are being taught that their brain/feelings are the constant (if they feel they are trans, that's a permanent feeling) and that their bodies can be adjusted to fit those feelings. But it's our bodies that are the constant (and all we really have) and it's our minds and feelings that change.
I loved hearing Ben's origin story, not too long! Up to your peaking point, so similar to gay male friends of mine who still believe that kids getting surgeries is a right-wing talking point that I have strangely and naively bought. One friend recently just talked over me in a patronizing and superior tone--but refused to let me send him links to your work or other pieces of information. Drives me crazy, because they arrogantly think they are more in the know than I am Honestly, I believe there is a sexist aspect to it--who cares what middle-aged ladies think? Can't possibly be as urbane or sophisticated as he is. And yet he wouldn't let me send him something from a smart gay guy fighting this. This is someone who has known me for decades, and I know he loves me but there is a pretty overt lack of respect there. That misogyny beneath the surface is part of the landscape in genderland. It's sad that the first people fighting this were lesbians, but it's still the way of the world that they aren't listened to until men speak up. This ignorance in LGB spaces and conversations helps keeps this crap in place. Thanks for speaking up, for thinking your way through it and putting it out there in multiple ways. Cis White Gay is an awesome title!
Lisa is right on, that the vaccum created by liberals' lack of skepticism and and just a little bit of thought actually gave the right wing a wedge issue that they have deployed effectively.
I really appreciate this podcast because I feel that you, individually and collectively, are really trying to come to grips with this issue. Informed Dissent is the perfect name for this process.
Having said that, I have a very strong reaction to the “we need more research” line of thinking. I understand that, given where the public debate currently stands, “the research” is very important, and that the importance of the Cass Report cannot be overstated.
But let’s remind ourselves of the origin story for puberty blockers. The Dutch were taking the word of adult men who wished that they had transitioned earlier in life so that they could recreate themselves as a more convincing simulacrum of women. So they decided to experiment with blocking the puberty of adolescents.
Now, on its face, preventing adolescents from becoming fully formed adults is — and here I want to choose my words carefully — completely batshit insane. The fact that we, as a society, are so deep down this rabbit hole, are seriously considering that the way to address this issue is through more “research” on blocking puberty, is itself deeply pathological. But this is in fact what the Cass Report itself proposes.
The debate is where the debate is, and the fact that “the research” can help our side in the public debate — say with respect to the Supreme Court — cannot be denied. But we should also understand that looking for a “moderate” approach to this issue obscures just how crazy all of this really is.
Ben, what an adorable shot of you & Ruth. These times are so important to capture, appreciate, & remember.
I’ve been itching for a few years to have discussions re the covid countermeasures protocol as a little bit too perfect of a vessel for the explosive growth of trans identities in the 24/7 plugged in younger western world population (ROGD). Is it my ignorance, or is there not much discourse circulating re reasons why this phenomenon has NOT exploded for children in Wi-Fi less geographical areas? In addition, groups of youth with Wi-Fi access who are more protected within their communities/families (thinking Orthodox/Chassidic Jews, Amish), seem to not be falling prey to the cloud manipulations. From my perspective, ROGD is yet another cute categorization/euphemism for what happened to children (mind control) throughout the shut down specifically from 2020-2022. Gender dysphoria has all but disappeared.
The highlight for me today, as it has been with each of the original stories, was hearing Ben’s origin story. I knew something of it, but actually hearing Ben talk about it was tremendously affecting. Thank you, Ben, for that, and thanks to all of you for all you do and all you are.
Means a lot, Susan. Thank you. 🙏🏼
Di-ag.org has mugs (things like "Dear Democrats, Miss you, love, Science").
Wait, I love you guys and appreciate your work, so don't think I am actually mad, but, to say that something stupid that originated on the east coast is MORE stupid in the midwest is STUPID. First of all, how do you get more stupid than stupid? Also, aren't the people who make up stupidness the stupidest, almost by definition? Almost all of the institutions that have dreamed up and propagated this incoherent ideology are located on the east coast. There are plenty of people in the midwest, as everywhere, who understand that gender ideology is stupid. Please don't project the stupidity of the trans movement onto us uniquely, that is the height of absurdity! You can't get stupider than stupid, and it is equally stupid everywhere! Thank you for listening. :-)
Haha fair enough!
Just heard that part of the podcast and LOLed. And I get V Dale's point, and agree, though maybe Ben was thinking not actually dumber but more naive, coming a little later to something considered the "in" thing on the east and west coasts, so it appears stupid in a different way. But definitely, being from the east coast myself, nothing could be stupider (more stupid?) than some of the ridiculous stuff coming from elite "woke" universities and social circles here. So much more to this, but what a thought-provoking discussion. Thanks!
As somebody who grew up in the Midwest, I think there's a greater insecurity among the local progressive social-cultural elite, which means an extra susceptibility to received nonsense. Nonsense *production* is a whole other problem.
Thanks for defending the Midwest, V Dale. :) I've lived in Midwest for the past 25 years and lived on the East Coast before. Stupid is about the same, ideology is the same, the main difference is that in NY y'all wear sneakers (and don't say y'all) and we wear tennis shoes.
Love listening!
Didn't see the zoom image this time (which is fine, I usually listen while straightening up or exercising).
Ben, your assessment of humanities departments is not exaggerated. I did a PhD in one in the early 1990s and ran into all sorts of problems precisely because I thought seminar was where we were supposed to try out ideas! Nothing political or like today's hot buttons, but I was still blacklisted by one professor, told I was "headstrong" by another professor, etc. I was so shocked that we were all supposed to toe a line! I was naive.
The professor who tried to blacklist me discovered "queer theory" in 1993--at the time I thought oh man she's jumped on the latest "in" thing, hope it's over soon. LOL.
I regret to say I am still pseudonymous on here because 90 percent of my colleagues are on the trans train. I have given up even checking Blue Sky because all I see are rage posts about the transphobic Republicans.
Solidarity, my friend.
Great episode !
Ben, your story resonates with me so much. I didn’t anticipate it would as a 40 something Jewish bisexual woman from Canada. The way you explained how people get drawn into these ideologies through fear and assuming that if they don’t get it they are not as smart and their analysis is wrong is something I have seen too.
I think it’s possible that those of us in recovery who have used certain models to help us through our addictions have a type of skepticism around these this schools of thought. While I do not adhere strictly to this program anymore, much of what I learnt was how to be responsible, how to be wrong, and that I have agency, have been deeply integrated into my life and I see victimhood culture directly at odds with what I learnt in the church basements.
I often wonder if it’s possible to bring aspects of recovery to society at large.
Looking forward to hearing Jamie’s origin story next week.
Happy holidays. :)
Awesome conversation. Thank you so much. Ben, beautiful telling of your origin story.
Also — somebody somewhere RULES!
I loved Lisa's comments about the body/brain: we need to make this point more often!
Young people are being taught that their brain/feelings are the constant (if they feel they are trans, that's a permanent feeling) and that their bodies can be adjusted to fit those feelings. But it's our bodies that are the constant (and all we really have) and it's our minds and feelings that change.
I loved hearing Ben's origin story, not too long! Up to your peaking point, so similar to gay male friends of mine who still believe that kids getting surgeries is a right-wing talking point that I have strangely and naively bought. One friend recently just talked over me in a patronizing and superior tone--but refused to let me send him links to your work or other pieces of information. Drives me crazy, because they arrogantly think they are more in the know than I am Honestly, I believe there is a sexist aspect to it--who cares what middle-aged ladies think? Can't possibly be as urbane or sophisticated as he is. And yet he wouldn't let me send him something from a smart gay guy fighting this. This is someone who has known me for decades, and I know he loves me but there is a pretty overt lack of respect there. That misogyny beneath the surface is part of the landscape in genderland. It's sad that the first people fighting this were lesbians, but it's still the way of the world that they aren't listened to until men speak up. This ignorance in LGB spaces and conversations helps keeps this crap in place. Thanks for speaking up, for thinking your way through it and putting it out there in multiple ways. Cis White Gay is an awesome title!
Gender dysphoria is a symptom, not a diagnosis.
Lisa is right on, that the vaccum created by liberals' lack of skepticism and and just a little bit of thought actually gave the right wing a wedge issue that they have deployed effectively.
Ben, your baby is just perfect. What a cutie pie.
She’s my best friend’s baby! I’m just an uncle. But thanks!
I really appreciate this podcast because I feel that you, individually and collectively, are really trying to come to grips with this issue. Informed Dissent is the perfect name for this process.
Having said that, I have a very strong reaction to the “we need more research” line of thinking. I understand that, given where the public debate currently stands, “the research” is very important, and that the importance of the Cass Report cannot be overstated.
But let’s remind ourselves of the origin story for puberty blockers. The Dutch were taking the word of adult men who wished that they had transitioned earlier in life so that they could recreate themselves as a more convincing simulacrum of women. So they decided to experiment with blocking the puberty of adolescents.
Now, on its face, preventing adolescents from becoming fully formed adults is — and here I want to choose my words carefully — completely batshit insane. The fact that we, as a society, are so deep down this rabbit hole, are seriously considering that the way to address this issue is through more “research” on blocking puberty, is itself deeply pathological. But this is in fact what the Cass Report itself proposes.
The debate is where the debate is, and the fact that “the research” can help our side in the public debate — say with respect to the Supreme Court — cannot be denied. But we should also understand that looking for a “moderate” approach to this issue obscures just how crazy all of this really is.
Ben, what an adorable shot of you & Ruth. These times are so important to capture, appreciate, & remember.
I’ve been itching for a few years to have discussions re the covid countermeasures protocol as a little bit too perfect of a vessel for the explosive growth of trans identities in the 24/7 plugged in younger western world population (ROGD). Is it my ignorance, or is there not much discourse circulating re reasons why this phenomenon has NOT exploded for children in Wi-Fi less geographical areas? In addition, groups of youth with Wi-Fi access who are more protected within their communities/families (thinking Orthodox/Chassidic Jews, Amish), seem to not be falling prey to the cloud manipulations. From my perspective, ROGD is yet another cute categorization/euphemism for what happened to children (mind control) throughout the shut down specifically from 2020-2022. Gender dysphoria has all but disappeared.
Calling for meaningful debate while refusing to participate in meaningful debate—Iron law of woke projection , crying wolf, narcissistic reversal etc
Shoot, I wish I saved my NPR sweatshirt for your bonfire instead of donating it to Goodwill a couple of years ago.
Omg, we can use all the donation request letters NPR sends as kindling. That donation I made so many years ago has cost the world a small forest.