But I do think that if kids need to be allowed to naturally develop their identities within the context of social norms, all our psychosocial development is within that context and the fact is it IS easier if you conform to some extent, it’s choice right! I was very boyish but at puberty I was afraid that others might suspect I was a lesbian, so I became more feminine on purpose and that saw me through those awful teenage years, until 8 reached adulthood then I tried on a zillion other identities until I found something that felt right and authentic
I am a fellow political traveler with you all. You make some light fun of religion in this episode, but one of the benefits of understanding spiritual practices well is having the vocabulary and broad moral framework to understand why it’s still not ok to lie in the name of kindness, or what exists beyond “finding one’s true self.” With that language—which doesn’t have to derive from organized religion—you can observe that there is no goodness without truth and that the task of all young people is to build their character, not “find their true selves.” There is no true kindness in a lie as big as gender ideology. The kindness lays in seeking truth, not fantasy. Well-raised young people focus on developing their character by following truth, real goodness, and acts of responsibility. The ultimate challenge is to take responsibility for ourselves and our decisions; it’s the best way to live a meaningful life. Kids have to learn to gradually take on responsibility, including responsibility for their actions . This is the language the left lacks now because we’re so afraid of the boogeyman of religion. We’re going to have to get over it because arguing with autistic activists and the women who love them about gender ideology within a materialist framework is a dead end.
I’ll clarify that, by values, I mean deep values. Right now, Democrats have shallow values, wholly intertwined with politics. Deep values transcend politics and guide us. We need wisdom to deprogram the left from shallow choices on top of chaotic, unexamined impulses.
My sister (born late 70s) was and still is very GNC. Largely as a child she was allowed to be herself - meaning dresses / skirts were not forced on her regularly, she played largely with our brother out on bikes with him or kicking a football about. But occasionally at home (matching outfits with me for a photo or family occasion, first holy communion) and in her school uniform, she followed the rules. And I really don’t recall there being much fuss from her in the necessary circumstances - though I can remember major tantrums around “optional” occasions when my Mum would quite like her to have worn the handed down dress! I suppose what I am saying is encouraging a flexible approach seems best. And maybe I (in my pretty dresses) might have benefitted from being encouraged to mix it up the other way, wear trousers, run around and get messy too! Ben’s comment about the (former?) Mormon acquaintance saying he was smart and adaptable is worth considering. The problem is that his adaptation was so complete and uncompromising (and arising from fear) that it amounted to suppression rather than flexibility.
Copied below is and excerpt of heather cox Richardson’s letter to the Americans. We will only win the left if respected scholars historians, educators like Ms. À Richardson are approached on a personal basis and given some context. As Lisa said unless we get the left in board this does not end. Bird by bird. I am sure she will meet with you.
t shows in the new administration's persecution of transgender Americans, including Trump’s executive order purging trans service members from the military, another limiting access to gender-affirming care for transgender youth, and yet another ordering trans federal prisoners to be medically detransitioned and then moved to facilities that correspond to their sex at birth, an outcome that a trans woman suing the administration calls “humiliating, terrifying, and dangerous.”
I am unclear why the executive order implies anything about gender. It doesn't care about gender. It would apply to a society where all males presented like GI Joe and all females presented like Barbie. it would also apply to a society where males and females randomly presented like either of those in any amount. They're just saying where sex matters, we pay attention to sex. Your gender is your business and whoever you want to share it with but we aren't asking you what it is. Gender conforming or not is completely different.
Our society might have issues with men who look very female going into the men's room or vice versa, but the executive order is just saying, well, that is something that should depend on sex. They don't care what your gender is.
Sort of like not asking someone if they are vegan or not. You often don't have to, even though many people who are vegan are very into it and would like to tell you :).
I am in Scotland, where prison policy is based on self-ID, & there have been numerous accounts of men discovering a trans identity at their trial, being sent to a female prison and given hormones, and then discontinuing the hormones because they interfered with their erections once they'd got access to women. There is a trial going on currently involving a natal male murderer who presents male and who has been in a women's wing for six years. He has had no 'gender affirming treatment' apart from a tracheal shave which appears to have been authorised so inconvenient questions about whether the person had ever made moves towards medical transition could be answered with 'yes'. The reason for the trial? Another inmate is accused of having used transphobic and homophobic language against the person and his prison partner, a women who murdered a child with her same sex wife. Interestingly the Scottish tabloid the Daily Record, which has been reporting the case, started with 'she' pronouns, but at least one article has used 'he' pronouns and quotes from gender critical organisation For Woman Scotland, suggesting some uncertainty on which route to take.
Regarding trans women in prisons, in the state I live in a majority of trans women are in prison for violent offenses towards women and children. And all of them began transitioning after years of being in prison. For one inmate, he began hormone treatments as a fetish. Also, not mentioned is the process that approves the transfer. When discussing the transition the violent crimes are excused because they were acting out of suppressed identity….whatever. So yes. More information needs to be reported on and researched.
I love all of you and this thought-provoking conversation! I'm at 29:19 and just wanted to throw in a comment about authenticity. As a hetero woman, I obviously can't get into the shoes of a gay person struggling with how to present him or herself, but, I do want to point out that I too struggled with presentation as a college student. Gen X voice here: I didn't feel sexy, but knew I was supposed to be. Or, was I independent? How could you be sexy and independent? Sex in the City hadn't come out yet, and even when it did I couldn't relate to women acting like men-- disengaged from wanting love. Could that conflict of understanding how to fit in to society be universal?
Carole Hooven just wrote extensively on X about the issue of sex/conception etc discussed in the first few minutes of the podcast. I post the entire thread.........
Again, I love this podcast. It makes me feel like I’m sitting in a living room with close friends talking about this very important subject. It’s a lonely world for a lot of us who are critical of gender ideology and this podcast helps me feel a lot less lonely. I have one person in my world who I talk with about this topic who is as angry about it as I am, everyone else I share with sadly aren’t as passionate or as concerned about what all this gender ideology means in the big picture. Thanks SO much for setting aside time in your lives to share with all of us out here.
The film, Conclave, (semi-spoiler ahead) was so well done in so many ways; I kept waiting for the "big reveal" that I did not know in advance; how was this film was going to deliver and handle it? And the big reveal was not terrible and was handled well. But by the end of the film I was really disturbed. Because the entire film never once mentioned the actual, real and monumental scandal and SIN of the Catholic church, which is the history of turning a blind eye to and cover-up of child sexual abuse. I want to celebrate all the terrific acting, the directing, the sets and costumes, even the themes of viewpoint diversity, that the perfect is the enemy of the good, and that there is no faith without mystery... But not even MENTIONING the perpetuation of the crimes of the centuries by this institution??? Really made me uncomfortable. Still trying to sort out my feelings about that film.
Children who kill themselves is one thing. The people who are entrusted to protect & nurture their growth & development encouraging them to do so is a whole other travesty.
But I do think that if kids need to be allowed to naturally develop their identities within the context of social norms, all our psychosocial development is within that context and the fact is it IS easier if you conform to some extent, it’s choice right! I was very boyish but at puberty I was afraid that others might suspect I was a lesbian, so I became more feminine on purpose and that saw me through those awful teenage years, until 8 reached adulthood then I tried on a zillion other identities until I found something that felt right and authentic
I don’t think Stella ever said that, I think you are taking her comments out of context
Really important insights from Question Cat, thank you.
I am a fellow political traveler with you all. You make some light fun of religion in this episode, but one of the benefits of understanding spiritual practices well is having the vocabulary and broad moral framework to understand why it’s still not ok to lie in the name of kindness, or what exists beyond “finding one’s true self.” With that language—which doesn’t have to derive from organized religion—you can observe that there is no goodness without truth and that the task of all young people is to build their character, not “find their true selves.” There is no true kindness in a lie as big as gender ideology. The kindness lays in seeking truth, not fantasy. Well-raised young people focus on developing their character by following truth, real goodness, and acts of responsibility. The ultimate challenge is to take responsibility for ourselves and our decisions; it’s the best way to live a meaningful life. Kids have to learn to gradually take on responsibility, including responsibility for their actions . This is the language the left lacks now because we’re so afraid of the boogeyman of religion. We’re going to have to get over it because arguing with autistic activists and the women who love them about gender ideology within a materialist framework is a dead end.
I’ll clarify that, by values, I mean deep values. Right now, Democrats have shallow values, wholly intertwined with politics. Deep values transcend politics and guide us. We need wisdom to deprogram the left from shallow choices on top of chaotic, unexamined impulses.
My sister (born late 70s) was and still is very GNC. Largely as a child she was allowed to be herself - meaning dresses / skirts were not forced on her regularly, she played largely with our brother out on bikes with him or kicking a football about. But occasionally at home (matching outfits with me for a photo or family occasion, first holy communion) and in her school uniform, she followed the rules. And I really don’t recall there being much fuss from her in the necessary circumstances - though I can remember major tantrums around “optional” occasions when my Mum would quite like her to have worn the handed down dress! I suppose what I am saying is encouraging a flexible approach seems best. And maybe I (in my pretty dresses) might have benefitted from being encouraged to mix it up the other way, wear trousers, run around and get messy too! Ben’s comment about the (former?) Mormon acquaintance saying he was smart and adaptable is worth considering. The problem is that his adaptation was so complete and uncompromising (and arising from fear) that it amounted to suppression rather than flexibility.
Copied below is and excerpt of heather cox Richardson’s letter to the Americans. We will only win the left if respected scholars historians, educators like Ms. À Richardson are approached on a personal basis and given some context. As Lisa said unless we get the left in board this does not end. Bird by bird. I am sure she will meet with you.
t shows in the new administration's persecution of transgender Americans, including Trump’s executive order purging trans service members from the military, another limiting access to gender-affirming care for transgender youth, and yet another ordering trans federal prisoners to be medically detransitioned and then moved to facilities that correspond to their sex at birth, an outcome that a trans woman suing the administration calls “humiliating, terrifying, and dangerous.”
Well done
I am unclear why the executive order implies anything about gender. It doesn't care about gender. It would apply to a society where all males presented like GI Joe and all females presented like Barbie. it would also apply to a society where males and females randomly presented like either of those in any amount. They're just saying where sex matters, we pay attention to sex. Your gender is your business and whoever you want to share it with but we aren't asking you what it is. Gender conforming or not is completely different.
Our society might have issues with men who look very female going into the men's room or vice versa, but the executive order is just saying, well, that is something that should depend on sex. They don't care what your gender is.
Sort of like not asking someone if they are vegan or not. You often don't have to, even though many people who are vegan are very into it and would like to tell you :).
I am in Scotland, where prison policy is based on self-ID, & there have been numerous accounts of men discovering a trans identity at their trial, being sent to a female prison and given hormones, and then discontinuing the hormones because they interfered with their erections once they'd got access to women. There is a trial going on currently involving a natal male murderer who presents male and who has been in a women's wing for six years. He has had no 'gender affirming treatment' apart from a tracheal shave which appears to have been authorised so inconvenient questions about whether the person had ever made moves towards medical transition could be answered with 'yes'. The reason for the trial? Another inmate is accused of having used transphobic and homophobic language against the person and his prison partner, a women who murdered a child with her same sex wife. Interestingly the Scottish tabloid the Daily Record, which has been reporting the case, started with 'she' pronouns, but at least one article has used 'he' pronouns and quotes from gender critical organisation For Woman Scotland, suggesting some uncertainty on which route to take.
Do you think it doesn't affect transmen because they aren't in male prisons?
The order does not discriminate between male or female. The NYT article was vague. It said
"appears to require the rehousing only of transgender women, not transgender men."
I don't see how this is true unless the transmen were in female prisons already but maybe there is another way it could happen.
Regarding trans women in prisons, in the state I live in a majority of trans women are in prison for violent offenses towards women and children. And all of them began transitioning after years of being in prison. For one inmate, he began hormone treatments as a fetish. Also, not mentioned is the process that approves the transfer. When discussing the transition the violent crimes are excused because they were acting out of suppressed identity….whatever. So yes. More information needs to be reported on and researched.
I love all of you and this thought-provoking conversation! I'm at 29:19 and just wanted to throw in a comment about authenticity. As a hetero woman, I obviously can't get into the shoes of a gay person struggling with how to present him or herself, but, I do want to point out that I too struggled with presentation as a college student. Gen X voice here: I didn't feel sexy, but knew I was supposed to be. Or, was I independent? How could you be sexy and independent? Sex in the City hadn't come out yet, and even when it did I couldn't relate to women acting like men-- disengaged from wanting love. Could that conflict of understanding how to fit in to society be universal?
Carole Hooven just wrote extensively on X about the issue of sex/conception etc discussed in the first few minutes of the podcast. I post the entire thread.........
https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1883607864025194744
Again, I love this podcast. It makes me feel like I’m sitting in a living room with close friends talking about this very important subject. It’s a lonely world for a lot of us who are critical of gender ideology and this podcast helps me feel a lot less lonely. I have one person in my world who I talk with about this topic who is as angry about it as I am, everyone else I share with sadly aren’t as passionate or as concerned about what all this gender ideology means in the big picture. Thanks SO much for setting aside time in your lives to share with all of us out here.
The film, Conclave, (semi-spoiler ahead) was so well done in so many ways; I kept waiting for the "big reveal" that I did not know in advance; how was this film was going to deliver and handle it? And the big reveal was not terrible and was handled well. But by the end of the film I was really disturbed. Because the entire film never once mentioned the actual, real and monumental scandal and SIN of the Catholic church, which is the history of turning a blind eye to and cover-up of child sexual abuse. I want to celebrate all the terrific acting, the directing, the sets and costumes, even the themes of viewpoint diversity, that the perfect is the enemy of the good, and that there is no faith without mystery... But not even MENTIONING the perpetuation of the crimes of the centuries by this institution??? Really made me uncomfortable. Still trying to sort out my feelings about that film.
Children who kill themselves is one thing. The people who are entrusted to protect & nurture their growth & development encouraging them to do so is a whole other travesty.