This is for Ben. I understand why you now distrust anything the Democratic party has to say about foreign policy or economics because of its insane insistence that sex differences do not matter. However, the answer is not to reject anything a Democrat may say. The answer -- especially for a journalist -- is not to blindly accept ANYONE's take on ANY issue. Look at the facts for yourself and make your own judgment. You may not come down agreeing with either side. And, I would say from personal experience, this will mean you refrain from taking a position until you thoroughly study an issue for yourself. Political parties, like all activist/advocacy groups, are not neutral, impartial observers or experts. Sadly, as we know from the gender issue, neither are the news media on many topics. Ronald Reagan famously cautioned about arms control, "Trust, but verify." My motto is simply, "Verify."
Spot on. Thank you. I think a lot of my discomfort comes from being politically homeless. There was a comfort in being part of a tribe. Now my main concern is the truth. And my frustration, especially when it comes to the economy and foreign policy, is that there is so damn much to research and learn before I can develop an informed position about these really complex current events. Maybe I’ll never develop a solid position.
I've never felt part of a political tribe. My entire career I worked as a journalist, so I couldn't take part in demonstrations or send money to a candidate. This suited me fine, because there were few issues on which I wholeheartedly agreed with one party or the other. Supporting our allies, especially when they face the naked aggression of a dictator, was one issue where I do not feel conflicted. Notably this was the post-war consensus of both parties before Trump. Yes, I do end up reading a lot on a range of topics. What I miss is feeling part of a country that has some basic shared values.
The issue isn’t being able to trust any one thing they are saying in light of their stance on sex, it’s being able to trust them with power and giving them the ability to make very consequential decisions.
I think Ben is saying that being so untethered from reality results in a lack of trust for the party to be able to make healthy sane choices for the people even on foreign policy and economics.
And if it’s from a lack of courage then how can we expect them to do the right thing on an international stage when they refuse to show any signs of bravery on such a straightforward issue.
( I don’t wanna talk for Ben though, but this is what I thought he was getting at.)
I’m still listening to the full podcast, but need to stop for a comment. This is for Jamie first, but also Cori, Ben, Eliza, Lisa. Jamie, at approx 38 mins in, when you, Cori and Ben are talking about trying to reach Democrats and what is going to happen, and so forth, you are trying not to despair, and you are say, “I like hope.” You need to understand Jamie that YOU are the hope. YOU ARE THE HOPE. Listen again to the words Ben played at the beginning. YOU are speaking deep truth. You are arguing for truth, compassion, honesty, all the goods. There is hope because of you, Cori, Ben, Lisa, Eliza. You 5 are the voice for people who are in danger if they speak up - danger of losing their kids to states (MN) that will take kids away if parents don’t affirm; danger of losing their kids’ love because the kids are so in the cult they will hate their parents; danger of losing jobs, friends; and their political party. Ben said it earlier in this episode, and in an earlier episode too. If the Democratic Party cannot say the truth that women are adult human females and men are adult human males and girls and boys are the corresponding juvenile version of each, then I can’t trust anything they say. This is a lie about the very nature of life on earth, of mammalian evolution, of the human species, of the fact that women and children are overwhelmingly in danger from adult human males whether these men identify as men or not, of the fact that no two humans are the same, but that each sex does have some attributes that tend to belong more to that sex than the other.for example, men tend - overwhelmingly, to be stronger and more violent than women. I was almost killed by my father as a child, then lived with his terrorizing of me and his violence thereafter. My mother was the product of a man who raped her from childhood, her father, who was the reason she was mentally ill her whole life. I was kidnapped and abused as a child by a man who plied his way into my mother’s trust when I was a child, my therapist, who was first her therapist, who also abused her first, because he was a man that could take advantage of their not being enough boundaries to protect vulnerable women and children, a man who claimed he knew best and would ‘save’. We were not the only ones. After that, the male therapist who was supposed to help me after the first, tried to assault me as well. THAT time, people, including my formerly brainwashed mother (by the first therapist), now aware of the need for boundaries, listened and I was not brought back. My next therapist was a woman, for obvious reasons. But the Democrats want to put boys and men in my daughter’s bathrooms, locker rooms, lesbian clubs, AND to affirm her that she’s a boy if she’s not comfortable being a woman, rather than help her be proud despite her discomfort and keep in place measures to help protect? Gee, I wonder why it’s uncomfortable to be a woman? YOU five ARE THE HOPE. So continue to HAVE hope, because it’ll always be there are you 5 continue what you do.
We can’t defeat gender ideology and protect women and children without convincing the Democratic Party to change their tune on this issue. The Dems fully control big blue states! We need to keep working on these politicians. Do not throw in the towel. It’s a worthy fight. Politicians have changed their minds many times in the past. They never admit they were wrong, but they will absolutely 180.
There’s a fundamental asymmetry in the positions. Queerness is aligned with entropy. Queering something is as easy as knocking a glass off a counter and watching it shatter into a thousand pieces against the floor. Reforming the glass once it’s been broken - well, that’s much more difficult, if not impossible.
Agreed on the free speech issue, and the ability to say true things. That’s always been my biggest concern about this. I detest the idea of compelling thoughts and speech; it is the functionally totalitarian nature of critical social justice that I find most loathsome about it.
The image you use to illustrate what queerness is reminds me of what DOGE is currently doing with the federal government. It is much easier to break something than to reform it in a sensible way.
This was a richly informative discussion. Each of you have very individual perspectives, sometimes overlapping, but often distinct.
Jamie, I want first off to say to you: it takes tremendous courage to admit you were wrong. It takes courage to step up and do everything you can to right the wrong once you see it. You have that kind of courage. You are making a HUGE, HUGE difference. When I encounter anyone who says otherwise about you, I push back. Our household is glad to be a proud contributor to the LGB Courage Coalition’s work.
Ben, I think you hit the nail on the head with what served as the title of this episode: “authoritarianism or postmodern hellscape.” That is basically how I see our current situation, too. In a conversation today over at Transmuted, Hippiesq made the point that, notwithstanding other efforts brought to bear to get out of this terrible situation, it is going to be necessary to change hearts and minds. That conversation, like this one, is well worth a listen, too. https://open.substack.com/pub/jennypoyerackerman/p/episode-29-momtalk-featuring-hippiesq?r=16541&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Cory, you always bring an interesting and subtle perspective. Whether or not I agree, I always appreciate hearing what you have to say. In this case, one of many salient points you made was about the inability/absence of independent thinking. I completely agree, and these days, we need to be able to do this more than ever.
I know not all agree, but for myself, as a lifelong Democrat, I believe it essential for me to try and change hearts and minds on the Democratic side. One of the things that heartens me on that score is grassroots work being done by organizations like MA4women (which is allied with DIAG). MA4women launched an action team initiative this year that I think holds a lot of promise: https://ma4women.substack.com/p/ma4women-action-team?r=16541&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true
I think we’re going to be seeing much more activity and advocacy from the Democratic Women’s Declaration, too. Wherever I see opportunities to help out with efforts like this, I try to make whatever contributions I can.
Bottom line: I am truly grateful to all of you for the enormous contributions you are making, each in your own beautiful, individual way. Thank you for all you do and all your are.
This discussion was more difficult to listen to, because it brought the evils on both sides into such sharp focus.
I'd like to postulate that a major reason the Dems felt free to get so hideous was because the *other* side was so off the rails, Dems figured they wouldn't lose any traction. And of course, Trump minions feel ever freer to get more hideous, because the Dems are so spatchcocked they're inviting middle-aged male predators into little girls' locker rooms. What red-blooded American would put up with *that* shit? So we can't really pick a side, when both are so poisoned: we can only pick right behavior, applaud it when we see it, no matter where--and vote not out of love, but out of strategic consideration of what will get us out of the most darkness the quickest.
Lady Luck has given Putin a big sloppy kiss. But Americans do reach a point of having had enough. We do know what a woman is, what honor is, what allies are. Republican evils and Democratic evils are two sides of the same boil. It can be lanced.
This conversation made me feel even more tribeless than I already do, because I don't feel aligned with the Democrats anymore, nor am I willing to engage in the kind of Trump apologism that seems so widespread among heterodox ex-Democrats and "anti-woke" independents. Partly, my particular loneliness on this is probably due to my European perspective (I've lived in the US for a long time but immigrated from Europe).
I vehemently disagree with Democrats on gender ideology and other issues (most notably Covid and DEI), but I also think that Trump is a malicious, narcissistic authoritarian sociopath who is a danger not only to our democracy, but to international alliances. The first weeks of his presidency have proven that our worst fears were correct, seeing how he is taking a sledgehammer to the civil service as well as international alliances and trade.
If he gets something right, like his EOs on gender or when he said in 2020 that schools must reopen, it is not because of his good judgment (he doesn't really care about women or kids, nor does he understand the complexities of the gender issue), but because making these statements somehow serves his personal interests of gaining attention and power, and sticking it to his enemies.
The idea that Trump isn't a threat to free speech is preposterous - there are plenty of examples where he is chilling it, and he would definitely like to put people who disagree with him, or challenge his power, in jail (Liz Cheney et al). Civil servants are currently afraid to speak out against the damage he is causing with his indiscriminate sabotage for fear of being next to lose their jobs. So I cringe at the way some of you (with the exception of Ben) are minimizing the danger he poses, and I do not appreciate the thought that Cori (whom I otherwise greatly admire) would probably call me "deranged" for recognizing Trump's sociopathy, unfitness, and yes, subservience to Putin. TDS, in my view, applies to people who disavow political positions just because Trump embraces them, not to those who see him for the authoritarian, self-serving sociopath that he is.
I'm also skeptical that Trumpism will go away when he is gone. He has fundamentally transformed the Republican Party, which used to care about the rule of law, fiscal responsibility, and international alliances in service of freedom and democracy. That party is gone forever. It is now a vehicle for populist authoritarianism that is every bit as reality-denying as the current Democratic Party, with the added feature of making common cause with brutal dictators like Putin and celebrating kleptocracy and ruthlessness for personal gain. Looking at the people around Trump, and the MAGA voices online, I am afraid those traits will not go away with him.
Ultimately, I think what the past years have taught us is that people in general love authoritarianism when it serves their tribe. This puts democracy in peril from both sides, but I still think the MAGA version of it is still the more dangerous one, as their populist version of reality denial is more accessible to the general public than postmodernism will ever be, and it is also explicitly anti-ethical. The most salient evidence for this difference in the degree of danger either side poses is that there was no effort from the Democrats to deny the validity of the results of the election they lost, and most importantly there was no January 6 in 2025.
I agree 100% with Cory that the free speech issue is the most important one. And I agree with this comment Kate, well expressed in every regard. There was a good recent Sam Harris podcast with an x-Republican elected never Trumper sort. He describes the mirror image of fear and conforming to unreality Republicans he personally knows are experiencing. He describes how they feel forced to say untrue things to be safe, to stay in the tribe, and to stay elected. He could have been talking about the authoritarian postmodern left we all criticize so roundly. Being forced to say: "Ukraine started the war" is exactly like being forced to say: "trans women are women." Here is the Harris pod, you can listen to quite a bit without a paid subscription. https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/403-sanity-check-on-trump-2-0
Thank you for sharing this, Elizabeth. I agree as well that free speech is paramount, I just disagree that the MAGA right (and Trump himself especially) are any more dedicated to protecting it. They just censor different things.
People who have experienced censorship from the left, whether on Covid or gender, tend to think that the right is better on free speech because they allow them to voice those opinions, and that feels liberating. But when you look at how many Republicans who condemned Trump in the past in the most devastating terms have now changed their tune in order not to be ostracized from their tribe, and have kissed the ring to stay in power, you realize that there is no such thing as freedom of speech or thought in the MAGAverse.
Maybe this is inevitable, given that humans are tribal by nature, and independent thought has not been an evolutionary advantage for individuals, regardless of the tribe they belong to.
I completely agree with you Kate in all your points. And as they talk about in this episode, Citizen's United kicked off this uber-empowerment of NGOs and corporations in our politics for both parties. I remember saying at the time (when I still identified as a Democrat!) "it's gonna be our billionaires against their billionaires." Now I am disgusted by all the billionaires. The money and donor machine on the left paralyzes Democrats and keeps the gender madness tragically in place. But it's at least as bad on the right, just different issues and the denial of different aspects of reality.
Leor Sapir once said something about how people defend gender ideology that I think is true: defenders can always lily pad hop between arguments from "science-y" sounding claims and the philosophical/political queer theory arguments. When they get pinned down on one argument they can just hop to an argument from the other perspective. It allows people on the left to ignore any doubts because there's always an answer to any criticism.
Jamie, what do we do for our kids? Sadly, I think Cori was near the answer. Democrats don't accept me because I won't buy into postmodernism or accept all their policies, but I am not a Republican or libertarian either. It also hurts now that among other parents whose kids were affected by this madness that I have learned to keep my mouth shut about my deep concerns with how Trump is handling this and other issues because I get told I just have an irrational dislike of Trump and won't give him a chance or whatever other problems are happening should be ignored because he's ending gender ideology (no, he's not). So I do a lot of what Cori says. I keep quiet and tell my kids to be careful what they say to people. I'm teaching them to rely on themselves and avoid the drama. Is it cowardly? Maybe. But we already fought our fight with this issue and paid enough. We're focusing on moving forward and surviving.
I was disturbed by Cori's advice, and I see a big tension in all these comments between congratulation of those of us who are refusing to be silenced by authoritarians and this "keep quiet" advice to the next generation. It's not cowardly, because it's not oneself being protected, but a loved one, but I worry that it is inconsistent and advising kids to accept oppression. I suspect it is potentially more damaging to them, instilling in them a defeatist attitude. But I don't have kids, and I have to admit if I try to imagine having kids living under authoritarian rule, I'm really not sure whether I'd want them to keep their heads down and applaud the dictator at the right times, or throw petrol bombs and get shot at by police. However, we're not at quite that state yet, and I think it's better to try to teach kids diplomatic expression of their views, how to be peace-makers, but to be courageous and truthful.
This Bulwark interview with conservative lawyer David French goes over some of the recent examples of the Trump administration's anti-free-speech actions, which surpass anything any administration has ever done in violation of the first amendment: https://youtu.be/_5ENR6w1Pww?si=tn2RtTd0aibBNS8L&t=313
Hi again Kate. David French also had a good piece last week in the NYT on the subject of free speech violations. I know many GC people (including myself) have been furious and very frustrated with their coverage of trans issues but for anyone who still sees how critical it is to get through to Democrats, it is still essential reading to keep up with their reporting, both what we like and what we don't. They started to course correct before the election on trans issues, which we all celebrated. Yeah, disappointing since, but I still have not unsubscribed because gender is not the only issue of concern on planet earth. Though I now take everything with a huge grain of salt--as Jamie conveyed, I've gone through the trust vortex and asked myself, "if they get the trans issue so wrong, how can I trust them?" It is good to be much more skeptical of any reporting and to dig deeper before getting your knickers in a knot and spouting opinions on X.
But it's not a simple calculation and at this moment in history's unfoldment it's dangerous and myopic to think otherwise. The NYT and other media legacy still do accurate and helpful reporting on other issues, especially the breakdown of the rule of law and violation of free speech unfolding daily on the right. Here's that article (gift, so anyone can read it or the comments):
Thank you for sharing this article, Elizabeth. I had heard about the Georgetown Law letter from the Trumpy US Attorney, and it is outrageous. I do still subscribe to the New York Times and the Washington Post (although I contact both every year to cancel, upon which they offer me another year of their promotional rate). They still have some good reporters and some good columnists. Same with the Atlantic, although I did give up that subscription as it was getting too expensive. I can still read it through web archive. A shame NYTimes fired Pamela Paul.
I started watching the Youtube interview of French you shared, he talks about it there too.
Since we're buried here in the comments section, I want to let you know that it was reassuring to read your original post here, Kate. I have become too weary of feeling out-of-tribe in these GC forums to even muster up the energy or take the time to post a response that I figured would be mostly ignored...and then you up and did it for me, point by point! (Loved it that Ben liked your comment, that was also reassuring!) Your engagement matters, as does mine. Everybody's engagement matters. I don't have a career I am trying to build based on my critiques of gender, that has never been of interest to me. I just want to be part of the conversation and help change things, sometimes in public, sometimes privately. I have never been anonymous. We are all tribal, we all want to belong somewhere and find community and a sense of shared perspectives. That is just human and healthy. Anyway, thanks again for helping me feel not so alone in my concerns about (especially) Cory's take on things. I respect the hell out of him and all these folks, so I hope they will ponder these issues regarding the dangers to free speech and the rule of law that I believe to be far beyond the personality or presidency of Donald Trump. You do not have TDS, and neither do I. There are always greedy a-holes looking for ways to grab power, to become the new mob boss. These bedrock rights in the US are precious and very rare in human societies--not the factory default by any means. This is why the same concerns have emerged on the left: human nature, not leftist nature. Our concerns are intelligent and valid.
Thank you for the kind words, Elizabeth. It's reassuring that there are others who are "heterodox" but still hold firm on Trump and Trumpism. I spent a couple of years on Twitter processing the Covid response, but shortly after the election, I left for good because some of my followers were getting really nasty about my opposition to Trump. I don't enjoy arguing with anonymous strangers and their tribal rage that ensues when they suddenly realize you may have agreed on one issue, but you are not part of their cult.
What was more disappointing though was that even many of the people there who were politically liberal but shared my concerns about the Covid response tended to minimize the threat of Trump, and thought he was the answer to their concerns about free speech. I always thought that was ridiculous.
As for TDS - calling someone "deranged" for recognizing Trump's malignant narcissism, refusing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and judging him to be categorically unfit for public office is in my opinion nothing but an attempt to pathologize others to cope with one's own lack of judgment and willingness to jeopardize so many things in order to achieve a narrow goal.
Thank you for the friendly conversation - it is so rare on social media - and take care!
Cori, Trump 𝘥𝘪𝘥 say his opponents should be jailed. He does think if he's saving the country, nothing he does can be "illegal". Check out his recent speech at the Department of Justice.
Jamie is right. A government that can compel citizens to believe falsehoods is the essence of "totalitarian". Orwell originated the standard, I believe.
Ben raised the point that most alarms me, that the Democrats can't be trusted and they show no sign of trying to moderate their views toward the median voter. They were supposed to have lost because of inflation and illegal immigration. I'd say they lost because of the interminable gaslighting about inflation being "under control" when it was 50% greater than the Fed's target. They were insisting the border was under control when people could see the swarms overwhelming the border. They are unanimously rejecting the polling that shows the third main losing issue was Trump's closing ad, "Kamala is for they/them." I had a brief moment of hope at the nominating convention with the display of patriotism. It struck me as sincere, heartfelt - and a marked change from the common attitude in the party since Vietnam. (Kerry's fakery turned my stomach.)
I also subscribe to The Bulwark because like me they were so appalled by Jan. 6th. I wish these two podcasts could talk to each other and listen to the other’s stories. Over there, JVL wrote a newsletter saying to leave trans people alone. They then had a podcast with the publisher-Sarah Longwell, who said a bunch of things 1) biological sex is real and it matters, 2) trans women in female sports is unfair, 3) and she has a friend with a gender questioning child who is struggling with what to do.
The conversation wasn’t perfect but it was a conversation and Sarah put forward positions where the majority of Americans are.
I never thought I would hear that over there because they have been so dismissive of any criticism of “trans rights “ as bigoted, etc
Btw Cori, Trump has talked about jailing Liz Cheney who risked her career to speak the truth about Jan. 6th
I appreciate your point of view. Democrats did retreat to their bubble and are confining themselves in unreality.
Gavin Newsom has been the worst regarding transitioning minors and laws regarding their care but we need to encourage him anyway.
He’s talking to Tim Walz next - another terrible governor if you’re interested in protecting children
I’m so happy to see that there’s another person who’s into the Bulwark as well as the gender critical world (including this pod.) I had the experience this weekend of yelling at my iPhone speaker and sighing in frustration at the JVL/Sarah discussion on trans sports the other day, only to do the same listening to this episode for entirely different reasons.
Exactly my feelings on The Bulwark, which I have watched and read a lot last year, and still sometimes do. I went to them because I thought being former moderate Republicans, they would be sane on issues where I disagree with progressives, but I have been mostly disappointed.
JVL especially has been off-putting, and I unsubscribed from his newsletter. I didn't follow them during the pandemic, but I have a feeling he was very afraid of Covid and supported all the destructive restrictions. He recently said he has "absolutely zero sympathy" for people who lost their jobs over the Covid vaccine mandates, because "1 million people died!" - never mind that it was already known in 2021 that the vaccine (of which I personally got three shots) didn't stop transmission, and mandates were therefore unethical.
I am not surprised he takes as uninformed a view on gender. Sarah is my favorite of the whole group, and takes a more critical position on both of those issues.
I'm three minutes in, and eager to hear the rest...but I'm moved to post this comment now.
Please know that I think THE WORLD of you all.
And I say the following with *so* *much* *love* in my heart for you. <3
When I hear you enthusing about dairy items, I can relate; cheese has long been a favorite food of mine. One day, though, it dawned on me that dairy cows are breastfeeding mothers. (I was a breastfeeding mother myself.) And I had a startling shift in perception. Now, for me, what dairy brings to mind, instead of deliciousness, is misery.
When there's talk of dairy, as a feminist, I can't help but think about the exploitation of the female reproductive system which is central to the dairy business. And I can't help but think of the suffering and violence. (The boy babies become veal, and the mother, once her existence is no longer profitable, is slaughtered as well.)
The good news?? Today, there are great plant-based versions of all the dairy items I grew up with. Plant-based milks, butter, cheese, and ice cream are all readily available at my regular grocery store.
I hope this comment lands on you in the spirit of love & good will with which I'm writing it. I really do adore you all. In my imagination, I'm sending each of you a dairy-free care package of Rebel Cheese wheels, vegan Ben & Jerry's pints, and pizza topped with Violife mozz & Follow Your Heart parm, as a token of my affection. Who knows, maybe someday I can treat you to dinner at one of NYC's wonderful restaurants that serve up vegan deliciousness! It would be my honor and joy. xoxoxo
About Lierre Keith: I accept that coalition work requires tolerating others who may be at odds on other issues...but based on the evidence I've seen, Lierre Keith has—mmm, how shall I put this?—a strained relationship with the truth. Years before I encountered the issues documented by Heterodorx guest (!) Natasha, I was aware that Lierre wrote a popular book in 2009 with "Vegetarian" in its title, which bashes veganism, and yet by her own admission, she had no basis for her conclusion. See the first comment at this interview: https://kpfa.org/episode/64995/
51:31. And again I get to say, that’s exactly it. The postmodern hellscape is bigger than the Trump derangement field. Trump is just a liar about incidents, to get what he wants, to look good. It is all about him. Postmodern hellscape has literally no bounds. It is Soviet Russia. It is China in the cultural revolution. There will be no belief but what you are told. You must not think, you must not question, you must hide the truth or you will be imprisoned. Nothing else matters but that you comply.
I would add that the women of Afghanistan and other countries are in the postmodern hellscape right now. Imagine being Iranian and still remembering life before the Revolution.
Is that postmodern? I don't know much about the place, but I get the impression it's pre-Enlightenment. It's strictures seem to be from ancient absolutist patriarchal religion.
Thanks for the question, John. There are several senses in which I would consider these jihadist states postmodern. Most obviously, these countries went through a period of relative modernity in the liberal sense, such as having basic rights for women, which they have now moved beyond on the timeline.
Secondly, they are postmodern in the sense that there is no truth but power. What the regime says is the truth, becomes the truth for the people who live there, on pain of death. The Taliban doesn't care about any facts that don't align with Theory.
Thirdly, these states may appear medieval, for example in the punishments that they apply, such as beheadings, but they also exist in a high-technology world where propaganda videos are made of beheadings for the Internet. Therefore it wouldn't be accurate to say they have gone back in time, in the sense of reverting to an earlier way of life.
Thanks, Daniel. Those are important and valid distinctions. There are various impulses for, and varieties of, the abusive tactic of Theory-as-Truth, and pick-and-mix probably works as well as anything remotely cohesive.
Because that’s what I saw- Trump sent a violent mob to overthrow an election and didn’t do anything to protect his own vice president- not to mention all the lawmakers there. Pretended he didn’t actually do that and then said that it was just a peaceful protest. It’s crazy making.
I actually think it’s Trump who broke reality. He’s immune to consequences for outrageous behavior.
Democrats followed him down that path and were in this horrible situation.
I wish you’d mentioned Gavin Newsom because that was the first break and I hope that others will follow.
I don’t think Trump will go down in history as a wise or principled leader. Many of his policies are foolish and even greedy. But America has survived much worse, and we will make it through this too, so long as we can still print and speak the truth. But if we can’t speak the truth, that is dangerous.
January 6th wasn't a serious attempt at insurrection, which would have required the support of the military. It was the result of a reckless remark which his supporters took literally, meeting a confused response from local security.
Love the book cover Ben! Very clear from the outset what it’s generally about, and to pull in the reader who can handle the topic hopefully, really looking forward to reading this.
.There’s a cheeky book by Dr Evan Goldstein that also uses a Greek statue to great effect.
Thankyou. That was such a good, thought-provoking conversation. In GB Jamie’s and Cori’s depositions are coming through on twitter. Jamie’s recent talk especially inspiring within my women’s group and JKR’s endorsement so well deserved. I have US grandchildren. I wish you all could keep circulating and talking and make a dent in Dems’ consciousness. So my grandkids can safely reach puberty without the ‘post modern hellscape’ you describe infecting their minds. Telling the truth has such power. Those depositions will have such impact. If only MSM get interested in the truth once again.
This is for Ben. I understand why you now distrust anything the Democratic party has to say about foreign policy or economics because of its insane insistence that sex differences do not matter. However, the answer is not to reject anything a Democrat may say. The answer -- especially for a journalist -- is not to blindly accept ANYONE's take on ANY issue. Look at the facts for yourself and make your own judgment. You may not come down agreeing with either side. And, I would say from personal experience, this will mean you refrain from taking a position until you thoroughly study an issue for yourself. Political parties, like all activist/advocacy groups, are not neutral, impartial observers or experts. Sadly, as we know from the gender issue, neither are the news media on many topics. Ronald Reagan famously cautioned about arms control, "Trust, but verify." My motto is simply, "Verify."
Spot on. Thank you. I think a lot of my discomfort comes from being politically homeless. There was a comfort in being part of a tribe. Now my main concern is the truth. And my frustration, especially when it comes to the economy and foreign policy, is that there is so damn much to research and learn before I can develop an informed position about these really complex current events. Maybe I’ll never develop a solid position.
I've never felt part of a political tribe. My entire career I worked as a journalist, so I couldn't take part in demonstrations or send money to a candidate. This suited me fine, because there were few issues on which I wholeheartedly agreed with one party or the other. Supporting our allies, especially when they face the naked aggression of a dictator, was one issue where I do not feel conflicted. Notably this was the post-war consensus of both parties before Trump. Yes, I do end up reading a lot on a range of topics. What I miss is feeling part of a country that has some basic shared values.
And the legacy media.
I still subscribe to NYT, etc.
Due to their reporting on the gender issue, I now wonder what else they are censoring.
The issue isn’t being able to trust any one thing they are saying in light of their stance on sex, it’s being able to trust them with power and giving them the ability to make very consequential decisions.
I think Ben is saying that being so untethered from reality results in a lack of trust for the party to be able to make healthy sane choices for the people even on foreign policy and economics.
And if it’s from a lack of courage then how can we expect them to do the right thing on an international stage when they refuse to show any signs of bravery on such a straightforward issue.
( I don’t wanna talk for Ben though, but this is what I thought he was getting at.)
I totally agree that the Democrats' embrace of something as crazy as gender ideology calls into question their judgment on all issues.
I’m still listening to the full podcast, but need to stop for a comment. This is for Jamie first, but also Cori, Ben, Eliza, Lisa. Jamie, at approx 38 mins in, when you, Cori and Ben are talking about trying to reach Democrats and what is going to happen, and so forth, you are trying not to despair, and you are say, “I like hope.” You need to understand Jamie that YOU are the hope. YOU ARE THE HOPE. Listen again to the words Ben played at the beginning. YOU are speaking deep truth. You are arguing for truth, compassion, honesty, all the goods. There is hope because of you, Cori, Ben, Lisa, Eliza. You 5 are the voice for people who are in danger if they speak up - danger of losing their kids to states (MN) that will take kids away if parents don’t affirm; danger of losing their kids’ love because the kids are so in the cult they will hate their parents; danger of losing jobs, friends; and their political party. Ben said it earlier in this episode, and in an earlier episode too. If the Democratic Party cannot say the truth that women are adult human females and men are adult human males and girls and boys are the corresponding juvenile version of each, then I can’t trust anything they say. This is a lie about the very nature of life on earth, of mammalian evolution, of the human species, of the fact that women and children are overwhelmingly in danger from adult human males whether these men identify as men or not, of the fact that no two humans are the same, but that each sex does have some attributes that tend to belong more to that sex than the other.for example, men tend - overwhelmingly, to be stronger and more violent than women. I was almost killed by my father as a child, then lived with his terrorizing of me and his violence thereafter. My mother was the product of a man who raped her from childhood, her father, who was the reason she was mentally ill her whole life. I was kidnapped and abused as a child by a man who plied his way into my mother’s trust when I was a child, my therapist, who was first her therapist, who also abused her first, because he was a man that could take advantage of their not being enough boundaries to protect vulnerable women and children, a man who claimed he knew best and would ‘save’. We were not the only ones. After that, the male therapist who was supposed to help me after the first, tried to assault me as well. THAT time, people, including my formerly brainwashed mother (by the first therapist), now aware of the need for boundaries, listened and I was not brought back. My next therapist was a woman, for obvious reasons. But the Democrats want to put boys and men in my daughter’s bathrooms, locker rooms, lesbian clubs, AND to affirm her that she’s a boy if she’s not comfortable being a woman, rather than help her be proud despite her discomfort and keep in place measures to help protect? Gee, I wonder why it’s uncomfortable to be a woman? YOU five ARE THE HOPE. So continue to HAVE hope, because it’ll always be there are you 5 continue what you do.
That Eliza just liked my comment means the world to me. I’m teary, having been heard by one whose opinions and words are vital to MY having hope.
And Ben.
Correction to last sentence: “…always be there if you 5…”
We can’t defeat gender ideology and protect women and children without convincing the Democratic Party to change their tune on this issue. The Dems fully control big blue states! We need to keep working on these politicians. Do not throw in the towel. It’s a worthy fight. Politicians have changed their minds many times in the past. They never admit they were wrong, but they will absolutely 180.
So agree with this! Thank you, Evie.
There’s a fundamental asymmetry in the positions. Queerness is aligned with entropy. Queering something is as easy as knocking a glass off a counter and watching it shatter into a thousand pieces against the floor. Reforming the glass once it’s been broken - well, that’s much more difficult, if not impossible.
Agreed on the free speech issue, and the ability to say true things. That’s always been my biggest concern about this. I detest the idea of compelling thoughts and speech; it is the functionally totalitarian nature of critical social justice that I find most loathsome about it.
The image you use to illustrate what queerness is reminds me of what DOGE is currently doing with the federal government. It is much easier to break something than to reform it in a sensible way.
Hell yeah, zines, Jamie! And congrats on the retweet by JK Rowling!
Such a great metaphor. I’ll remember the broken glass…
This was a richly informative discussion. Each of you have very individual perspectives, sometimes overlapping, but often distinct.
Jamie, I want first off to say to you: it takes tremendous courage to admit you were wrong. It takes courage to step up and do everything you can to right the wrong once you see it. You have that kind of courage. You are making a HUGE, HUGE difference. When I encounter anyone who says otherwise about you, I push back. Our household is glad to be a proud contributor to the LGB Courage Coalition’s work.
Ben, I think you hit the nail on the head with what served as the title of this episode: “authoritarianism or postmodern hellscape.” That is basically how I see our current situation, too. In a conversation today over at Transmuted, Hippiesq made the point that, notwithstanding other efforts brought to bear to get out of this terrible situation, it is going to be necessary to change hearts and minds. That conversation, like this one, is well worth a listen, too. https://open.substack.com/pub/jennypoyerackerman/p/episode-29-momtalk-featuring-hippiesq?r=16541&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Cory, you always bring an interesting and subtle perspective. Whether or not I agree, I always appreciate hearing what you have to say. In this case, one of many salient points you made was about the inability/absence of independent thinking. I completely agree, and these days, we need to be able to do this more than ever.
I know not all agree, but for myself, as a lifelong Democrat, I believe it essential for me to try and change hearts and minds on the Democratic side. One of the things that heartens me on that score is grassroots work being done by organizations like MA4women (which is allied with DIAG). MA4women launched an action team initiative this year that I think holds a lot of promise: https://ma4women.substack.com/p/ma4women-action-team?r=16541&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true
I think we’re going to be seeing much more activity and advocacy from the Democratic Women’s Declaration, too. Wherever I see opportunities to help out with efforts like this, I try to make whatever contributions I can.
Bottom line: I am truly grateful to all of you for the enormous contributions you are making, each in your own beautiful, individual way. Thank you for all you do and all your are.
This discussion was more difficult to listen to, because it brought the evils on both sides into such sharp focus.
I'd like to postulate that a major reason the Dems felt free to get so hideous was because the *other* side was so off the rails, Dems figured they wouldn't lose any traction. And of course, Trump minions feel ever freer to get more hideous, because the Dems are so spatchcocked they're inviting middle-aged male predators into little girls' locker rooms. What red-blooded American would put up with *that* shit? So we can't really pick a side, when both are so poisoned: we can only pick right behavior, applaud it when we see it, no matter where--and vote not out of love, but out of strategic consideration of what will get us out of the most darkness the quickest.
Lady Luck has given Putin a big sloppy kiss. But Americans do reach a point of having had enough. We do know what a woman is, what honor is, what allies are. Republican evils and Democratic evils are two sides of the same boil. It can be lanced.
This conversation made me feel even more tribeless than I already do, because I don't feel aligned with the Democrats anymore, nor am I willing to engage in the kind of Trump apologism that seems so widespread among heterodox ex-Democrats and "anti-woke" independents. Partly, my particular loneliness on this is probably due to my European perspective (I've lived in the US for a long time but immigrated from Europe).
I vehemently disagree with Democrats on gender ideology and other issues (most notably Covid and DEI), but I also think that Trump is a malicious, narcissistic authoritarian sociopath who is a danger not only to our democracy, but to international alliances. The first weeks of his presidency have proven that our worst fears were correct, seeing how he is taking a sledgehammer to the civil service as well as international alliances and trade.
If he gets something right, like his EOs on gender or when he said in 2020 that schools must reopen, it is not because of his good judgment (he doesn't really care about women or kids, nor does he understand the complexities of the gender issue), but because making these statements somehow serves his personal interests of gaining attention and power, and sticking it to his enemies.
The idea that Trump isn't a threat to free speech is preposterous - there are plenty of examples where he is chilling it, and he would definitely like to put people who disagree with him, or challenge his power, in jail (Liz Cheney et al). Civil servants are currently afraid to speak out against the damage he is causing with his indiscriminate sabotage for fear of being next to lose their jobs. So I cringe at the way some of you (with the exception of Ben) are minimizing the danger he poses, and I do not appreciate the thought that Cori (whom I otherwise greatly admire) would probably call me "deranged" for recognizing Trump's sociopathy, unfitness, and yes, subservience to Putin. TDS, in my view, applies to people who disavow political positions just because Trump embraces them, not to those who see him for the authoritarian, self-serving sociopath that he is.
I'm also skeptical that Trumpism will go away when he is gone. He has fundamentally transformed the Republican Party, which used to care about the rule of law, fiscal responsibility, and international alliances in service of freedom and democracy. That party is gone forever. It is now a vehicle for populist authoritarianism that is every bit as reality-denying as the current Democratic Party, with the added feature of making common cause with brutal dictators like Putin and celebrating kleptocracy and ruthlessness for personal gain. Looking at the people around Trump, and the MAGA voices online, I am afraid those traits will not go away with him.
Ultimately, I think what the past years have taught us is that people in general love authoritarianism when it serves their tribe. This puts democracy in peril from both sides, but I still think the MAGA version of it is still the more dangerous one, as their populist version of reality denial is more accessible to the general public than postmodernism will ever be, and it is also explicitly anti-ethical. The most salient evidence for this difference in the degree of danger either side poses is that there was no effort from the Democrats to deny the validity of the results of the election they lost, and most importantly there was no January 6 in 2025.
I agree 100% with Cory that the free speech issue is the most important one. And I agree with this comment Kate, well expressed in every regard. There was a good recent Sam Harris podcast with an x-Republican elected never Trumper sort. He describes the mirror image of fear and conforming to unreality Republicans he personally knows are experiencing. He describes how they feel forced to say untrue things to be safe, to stay in the tribe, and to stay elected. He could have been talking about the authoritarian postmodern left we all criticize so roundly. Being forced to say: "Ukraine started the war" is exactly like being forced to say: "trans women are women." Here is the Harris pod, you can listen to quite a bit without a paid subscription. https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/403-sanity-check-on-trump-2-0
Thank you for sharing this, Elizabeth. I agree as well that free speech is paramount, I just disagree that the MAGA right (and Trump himself especially) are any more dedicated to protecting it. They just censor different things.
People who have experienced censorship from the left, whether on Covid or gender, tend to think that the right is better on free speech because they allow them to voice those opinions, and that feels liberating. But when you look at how many Republicans who condemned Trump in the past in the most devastating terms have now changed their tune in order not to be ostracized from their tribe, and have kissed the ring to stay in power, you realize that there is no such thing as freedom of speech or thought in the MAGAverse.
Maybe this is inevitable, given that humans are tribal by nature, and independent thought has not been an evolutionary advantage for individuals, regardless of the tribe they belong to.
I completely agree with you Kate in all your points. And as they talk about in this episode, Citizen's United kicked off this uber-empowerment of NGOs and corporations in our politics for both parties. I remember saying at the time (when I still identified as a Democrat!) "it's gonna be our billionaires against their billionaires." Now I am disgusted by all the billionaires. The money and donor machine on the left paralyzes Democrats and keeps the gender madness tragically in place. But it's at least as bad on the right, just different issues and the denial of different aspects of reality.
This is a good article that expresses some of what I've been trying to say here: https://www.persuasion.community/p/when-anti-woke-becomes-pro-trump
Leor Sapir once said something about how people defend gender ideology that I think is true: defenders can always lily pad hop between arguments from "science-y" sounding claims and the philosophical/political queer theory arguments. When they get pinned down on one argument they can just hop to an argument from the other perspective. It allows people on the left to ignore any doubts because there's always an answer to any criticism.
Jamie, what do we do for our kids? Sadly, I think Cori was near the answer. Democrats don't accept me because I won't buy into postmodernism or accept all their policies, but I am not a Republican or libertarian either. It also hurts now that among other parents whose kids were affected by this madness that I have learned to keep my mouth shut about my deep concerns with how Trump is handling this and other issues because I get told I just have an irrational dislike of Trump and won't give him a chance or whatever other problems are happening should be ignored because he's ending gender ideology (no, he's not). So I do a lot of what Cori says. I keep quiet and tell my kids to be careful what they say to people. I'm teaching them to rely on themselves and avoid the drama. Is it cowardly? Maybe. But we already fought our fight with this issue and paid enough. We're focusing on moving forward and surviving.
I was disturbed by Cori's advice, and I see a big tension in all these comments between congratulation of those of us who are refusing to be silenced by authoritarians and this "keep quiet" advice to the next generation. It's not cowardly, because it's not oneself being protected, but a loved one, but I worry that it is inconsistent and advising kids to accept oppression. I suspect it is potentially more damaging to them, instilling in them a defeatist attitude. But I don't have kids, and I have to admit if I try to imagine having kids living under authoritarian rule, I'm really not sure whether I'd want them to keep their heads down and applaud the dictator at the right times, or throw petrol bombs and get shot at by police. However, we're not at quite that state yet, and I think it's better to try to teach kids diplomatic expression of their views, how to be peace-makers, but to be courageous and truthful.
This Bulwark interview with conservative lawyer David French goes over some of the recent examples of the Trump administration's anti-free-speech actions, which surpass anything any administration has ever done in violation of the first amendment: https://youtu.be/_5ENR6w1Pww?si=tn2RtTd0aibBNS8L&t=313
Hi again Kate. David French also had a good piece last week in the NYT on the subject of free speech violations. I know many GC people (including myself) have been furious and very frustrated with their coverage of trans issues but for anyone who still sees how critical it is to get through to Democrats, it is still essential reading to keep up with their reporting, both what we like and what we don't. They started to course correct before the election on trans issues, which we all celebrated. Yeah, disappointing since, but I still have not unsubscribed because gender is not the only issue of concern on planet earth. Though I now take everything with a huge grain of salt--as Jamie conveyed, I've gone through the trust vortex and asked myself, "if they get the trans issue so wrong, how can I trust them?" It is good to be much more skeptical of any reporting and to dig deeper before getting your knickers in a knot and spouting opinions on X.
But it's not a simple calculation and at this moment in history's unfoldment it's dangerous and myopic to think otherwise. The NYT and other media legacy still do accurate and helpful reporting on other issues, especially the breakdown of the rule of law and violation of free speech unfolding daily on the right. Here's that article (gift, so anyone can read it or the comments):
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/09/opinion/trump-martin-free-speech.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4k4.WiS7.4DzWLv6jFLqj&smid=url-share
Thank you for sharing this article, Elizabeth. I had heard about the Georgetown Law letter from the Trumpy US Attorney, and it is outrageous. I do still subscribe to the New York Times and the Washington Post (although I contact both every year to cancel, upon which they offer me another year of their promotional rate). They still have some good reporters and some good columnists. Same with the Atlantic, although I did give up that subscription as it was getting too expensive. I can still read it through web archive. A shame NYTimes fired Pamela Paul.
I started watching the Youtube interview of French you shared, he talks about it there too.
Since we're buried here in the comments section, I want to let you know that it was reassuring to read your original post here, Kate. I have become too weary of feeling out-of-tribe in these GC forums to even muster up the energy or take the time to post a response that I figured would be mostly ignored...and then you up and did it for me, point by point! (Loved it that Ben liked your comment, that was also reassuring!) Your engagement matters, as does mine. Everybody's engagement matters. I don't have a career I am trying to build based on my critiques of gender, that has never been of interest to me. I just want to be part of the conversation and help change things, sometimes in public, sometimes privately. I have never been anonymous. We are all tribal, we all want to belong somewhere and find community and a sense of shared perspectives. That is just human and healthy. Anyway, thanks again for helping me feel not so alone in my concerns about (especially) Cory's take on things. I respect the hell out of him and all these folks, so I hope they will ponder these issues regarding the dangers to free speech and the rule of law that I believe to be far beyond the personality or presidency of Donald Trump. You do not have TDS, and neither do I. There are always greedy a-holes looking for ways to grab power, to become the new mob boss. These bedrock rights in the US are precious and very rare in human societies--not the factory default by any means. This is why the same concerns have emerged on the left: human nature, not leftist nature. Our concerns are intelligent and valid.
Thank you for the kind words, Elizabeth. It's reassuring that there are others who are "heterodox" but still hold firm on Trump and Trumpism. I spent a couple of years on Twitter processing the Covid response, but shortly after the election, I left for good because some of my followers were getting really nasty about my opposition to Trump. I don't enjoy arguing with anonymous strangers and their tribal rage that ensues when they suddenly realize you may have agreed on one issue, but you are not part of their cult.
What was more disappointing though was that even many of the people there who were politically liberal but shared my concerns about the Covid response tended to minimize the threat of Trump, and thought he was the answer to their concerns about free speech. I always thought that was ridiculous.
As for TDS - calling someone "deranged" for recognizing Trump's malignant narcissism, refusing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and judging him to be categorically unfit for public office is in my opinion nothing but an attempt to pathologize others to cope with one's own lack of judgment and willingness to jeopardize so many things in order to achieve a narrow goal.
Thank you for the friendly conversation - it is so rare on social media - and take care!
I just sent you a PM on Substack. You take care too!
Cori, Trump 𝘥𝘪𝘥 say his opponents should be jailed. He does think if he's saving the country, nothing he does can be "illegal". Check out his recent speech at the Department of Justice.
Jamie is right. A government that can compel citizens to believe falsehoods is the essence of "totalitarian". Orwell originated the standard, I believe.
Ben raised the point that most alarms me, that the Democrats can't be trusted and they show no sign of trying to moderate their views toward the median voter. They were supposed to have lost because of inflation and illegal immigration. I'd say they lost because of the interminable gaslighting about inflation being "under control" when it was 50% greater than the Fed's target. They were insisting the border was under control when people could see the swarms overwhelming the border. They are unanimously rejecting the polling that shows the third main losing issue was Trump's closing ad, "Kamala is for they/them." I had a brief moment of hope at the nominating convention with the display of patriotism. It struck me as sincere, heartfelt - and a marked change from the common attitude in the party since Vietnam. (Kerry's fakery turned my stomach.)
I also subscribe to The Bulwark because like me they were so appalled by Jan. 6th. I wish these two podcasts could talk to each other and listen to the other’s stories. Over there, JVL wrote a newsletter saying to leave trans people alone. They then had a podcast with the publisher-Sarah Longwell, who said a bunch of things 1) biological sex is real and it matters, 2) trans women in female sports is unfair, 3) and she has a friend with a gender questioning child who is struggling with what to do.
The conversation wasn’t perfect but it was a conversation and Sarah put forward positions where the majority of Americans are.
I never thought I would hear that over there because they have been so dismissive of any criticism of “trans rights “ as bigoted, etc
Btw Cori, Trump has talked about jailing Liz Cheney who risked her career to speak the truth about Jan. 6th
I appreciate your point of view. Democrats did retreat to their bubble and are confining themselves in unreality.
Gavin Newsom has been the worst regarding transitioning minors and laws regarding their care but we need to encourage him anyway.
He’s talking to Tim Walz next - another terrible governor if you’re interested in protecting children
I’m so happy to see that there’s another person who’s into the Bulwark as well as the gender critical world (including this pod.) I had the experience this weekend of yelling at my iPhone speaker and sighing in frustration at the JVL/Sarah discussion on trans sports the other day, only to do the same listening to this episode for entirely different reasons.
Exactly my feelings on The Bulwark, which I have watched and read a lot last year, and still sometimes do. I went to them because I thought being former moderate Republicans, they would be sane on issues where I disagree with progressives, but I have been mostly disappointed.
JVL especially has been off-putting, and I unsubscribed from his newsletter. I didn't follow them during the pandemic, but I have a feeling he was very afraid of Covid and supported all the destructive restrictions. He recently said he has "absolutely zero sympathy" for people who lost their jobs over the Covid vaccine mandates, because "1 million people died!" - never mind that it was already known in 2021 that the vaccine (of which I personally got three shots) didn't stop transmission, and mandates were therefore unethical.
I am not surprised he takes as uninformed a view on gender. Sarah is my favorite of the whole group, and takes a more critical position on both of those issues.
I'm three minutes in, and eager to hear the rest...but I'm moved to post this comment now.
Please know that I think THE WORLD of you all.
And I say the following with *so* *much* *love* in my heart for you. <3
When I hear you enthusing about dairy items, I can relate; cheese has long been a favorite food of mine. One day, though, it dawned on me that dairy cows are breastfeeding mothers. (I was a breastfeeding mother myself.) And I had a startling shift in perception. Now, for me, what dairy brings to mind, instead of deliciousness, is misery.
When there's talk of dairy, as a feminist, I can't help but think about the exploitation of the female reproductive system which is central to the dairy business. And I can't help but think of the suffering and violence. (The boy babies become veal, and the mother, once her existence is no longer profitable, is slaughtered as well.)
The good news?? Today, there are great plant-based versions of all the dairy items I grew up with. Plant-based milks, butter, cheese, and ice cream are all readily available at my regular grocery store.
I hope this comment lands on you in the spirit of love & good will with which I'm writing it. I really do adore you all. In my imagination, I'm sending each of you a dairy-free care package of Rebel Cheese wheels, vegan Ben & Jerry's pints, and pizza topped with Violife mozz & Follow Your Heart parm, as a token of my affection. Who knows, maybe someday I can treat you to dinner at one of NYC's wonderful restaurants that serve up vegan deliciousness! It would be my honor and joy. xoxoxo
About Lierre Keith: I accept that coalition work requires tolerating others who may be at odds on other issues...but based on the evidence I've seen, Lierre Keith has—mmm, how shall I put this?—a strained relationship with the truth. Years before I encountered the issues documented by Heterodorx guest (!) Natasha, I was aware that Lierre wrote a popular book in 2009 with "Vegetarian" in its title, which bashes veganism, and yet by her own admission, she had no basis for her conclusion. See the first comment at this interview: https://kpfa.org/episode/64995/
51:31. And again I get to say, that’s exactly it. The postmodern hellscape is bigger than the Trump derangement field. Trump is just a liar about incidents, to get what he wants, to look good. It is all about him. Postmodern hellscape has literally no bounds. It is Soviet Russia. It is China in the cultural revolution. There will be no belief but what you are told. You must not think, you must not question, you must hide the truth or you will be imprisoned. Nothing else matters but that you comply.
I would add that the women of Afghanistan and other countries are in the postmodern hellscape right now. Imagine being Iranian and still remembering life before the Revolution.
Is that postmodern? I don't know much about the place, but I get the impression it's pre-Enlightenment. It's strictures seem to be from ancient absolutist patriarchal religion.
Thanks for the question, John. There are several senses in which I would consider these jihadist states postmodern. Most obviously, these countries went through a period of relative modernity in the liberal sense, such as having basic rights for women, which they have now moved beyond on the timeline.
Secondly, they are postmodern in the sense that there is no truth but power. What the regime says is the truth, becomes the truth for the people who live there, on pain of death. The Taliban doesn't care about any facts that don't align with Theory.
Thirdly, these states may appear medieval, for example in the punishments that they apply, such as beheadings, but they also exist in a high-technology world where propaganda videos are made of beheadings for the Internet. Therefore it wouldn't be accurate to say they have gone back in time, in the sense of reverting to an earlier way of life.
Thanks, Daniel. Those are important and valid distinctions. There are various impulses for, and varieties of, the abusive tactic of Theory-as-Truth, and pick-and-mix probably works as well as anything remotely cohesive.
I guess I wish you’d mention Jan. 6th
Because that’s what I saw- Trump sent a violent mob to overthrow an election and didn’t do anything to protect his own vice president- not to mention all the lawmakers there. Pretended he didn’t actually do that and then said that it was just a peaceful protest. It’s crazy making.
I actually think it’s Trump who broke reality. He’s immune to consequences for outrageous behavior.
Democrats followed him down that path and were in this horrible situation.
I wish you’d mentioned Gavin Newsom because that was the first break and I hope that others will follow.
I don’t think Trump will go down in history as a wise or principled leader. Many of his policies are foolish and even greedy. But America has survived much worse, and we will make it through this too, so long as we can still print and speak the truth. But if we can’t speak the truth, that is dangerous.
Eight Michigan Democrats voted on Wednesday in favor of a state bill to keep males out of female sports. Another good sign. Let’s stay positive.
January 6th wasn't a serious attempt at insurrection, which would have required the support of the military. It was the result of a reckless remark which his supporters took literally, meeting a confused response from local security.
Love the book cover Ben! Very clear from the outset what it’s generally about, and to pull in the reader who can handle the topic hopefully, really looking forward to reading this.
.There’s a cheeky book by Dr Evan Goldstein that also uses a Greek statue to great effect.
Thankyou. That was such a good, thought-provoking conversation. In GB Jamie’s and Cori’s depositions are coming through on twitter. Jamie’s recent talk especially inspiring within my women’s group and JKR’s endorsement so well deserved. I have US grandchildren. I wish you all could keep circulating and talking and make a dent in Dems’ consciousness. So my grandkids can safely reach puberty without the ‘post modern hellscape’ you describe infecting their minds. Telling the truth has such power. Those depositions will have such impact. If only MSM get interested in the truth once again.