Y’all, I really like what you have going here. A fresh blend of your professional and personal expertise(s). (What is the plural of expertise?) I am a mom who is seriously struggling with this scandal. I have been so relieved to have discovered each of you in your work to uncover this scandals roots, it’s harms to children and vulnerable young people and your work to bring your findings to the greater public.
Two years ago I began listening to Eliza while on long walks. I stopped in my tracks when she said something about ‘the alter of gender ideology.’ Yes. A cult. I should know, as my mom is in one. Jamie, your whistleblower article was the pivotal moment where my husband finally engaged and realized that this was a serious cultural problem and that our daughter was in real trouble. Until then, I was a lone mother, getting all of the hate and abuse and doing ALL of the panic research. Cori, I really like listening to your thoughtful perspective and questions. I feel you are very measured and intelligent. (I was yelling at Brianna Wu during your recent interview, you were rational). Lisa and Ben, I really like your writing and research. I look forward to your books. My first act of activism was attending the Skrmetti v. Biden rally at the Supreme Court. It was overwhelming and a new world for me, but I hope to do more. This $hit has really struck a nerve. The betrayal that was happening by our society while I was busy raising my 4 kids is unfathomable. Thanks for the laughs here and there.
Thank you, Jamie, for sharing your squirmy feelings and thoughts about social contagion in your origin story. Of course we are all prone to “social contagion,” a weird term when you think about it, because all humans in all eras are social animals. It’s not an infection, it’s just how we are, to be influenced by our social worlds. We do not swim alone. We have the hubris to believe we are smarter, more advanced, and certainly way cooler than previous generations, but this superiority is bullshit. Peaking exposes this as bullshit. I think that many people formerly “on the left” who have peaked about trans issues or social justice ideology can feel this kind of shame and intense self-chastisement.
It’s actually an enormous gift for emotional/spiritual growth, though the shame piece must transform and be replaced with strength and humility. Some kinds of personalities, perhaps like Jamie’s and I know like my own, are more prone to embrace ideologies that seem “on the right side of history” with zeal and gusto and intelligence. I’m of a different generation than Jamie, but if I’d been a few decades younger, I’d have been right there ruminating endlessly about whether I was still a she/her or a they/them or maybe I should try T and consider being a he/him? One of my millennial cousins, the one I most relate to as a personality, has been the most publicly condemning of my views about gender, gently and carefully expressed as they have been. It makes me feel sad, it makes me mad, but really, I can’t blame her too much because she could be me if I was born 30 years later. Conservative people in this fight are not immune to their own traps of “social contagion” either, so it’s not a particularly lefty flaw.
The traditions of the left hold wisdom (such as caring for the most vulnerable or caring about women’s rights and dignity) which the five of you continue to embrace. Maybe as a culture we have an opportunity to grow and be stronger because of this self-knowledge.
This episode made me nod my head so much it almost fell off. Also laugh (at the safari banter and Lisa's looseness) and tear up (as did the priors) at your backstories. Yes, Ben, this is all, or should by now certainly be, 101 level. What else will it take for more people to understand? Jamie's experience with the pronoun ritual is heartbreaking and in some ways what I tried to convey to a now ex friend (who kept emailing me with "her pronouns" in her signature and then got furiously offended when I tried to discuss what she meant by it and thought it was conveying) about how the "be kind brigade" or benevolent malevolence (as I keep calling it) is actually harmful on so many homophobic, misogynistic, regressive levels. Thank you for these discussions.
Regarding Jamie Reed's comments on experiencing gender dysphoria related to being a Lesbian in a homophobic society - Looking at the earliest Transsexuals - they were gay men. Transition to another sex was THE original extreme Conversion Therapy for Gay men experiencing Homophobia is a dangerously homophobic world.
It's been a weird 24 hours. After a quiet few months for me "gender-wise", I just realised that a longstanding Facebook friend is up to his armpits in woke nonsense. During a discussion on his group (on the hypothesis that we don't have free will), he said something about how changes in definitions of terms take a generation or so, and (stupidly, assuming he was wise and informed, rather than just nerdy-smart) I said, 'Well, unless you're rich and influential. Then you can change everyone's definition of "man" and "woman" pretty damn quick.' I thought he'd LOL.
He was clearly deeply shocked, asking, "You're not one of those t-phobes are you?" I was at one point likened to J K Rowling. That's how awful I am.
I tried discussing the issues (also saying maybe that wasn't the place and shall we email?), but by the next morning he booted me off the group for expressing racist views (He assumed I was a "race realist", "right wing", etc., etc.) some of which I tried to straighten out. I am a race realist. Not a complete fuckwit.
He first sent me to watch a godawful "biologist" ranting for an hour about how different species procreate, and dealing at length with what "gender" is - the usual stereotypes - and then to some worse phone in manned by "real Trans people" (and I'm pretty sure they were real people, though clearly not the sex they were trying to pass as). I should phone them, he said, so they could "gently put me down" with their science.
Is it worth talking to any of these people? When - if - you get into these places with someone (maybe someone you thought was on the same wavelength), do you have anything that makes a scrap of difference? A study? An article? A video? Obviously sites like this. My first mention was Eliza's substack, and I posted a short video of Mia Hughes likening trans to the other socially contagious medical scandals. I got a potted character assassination of Mia Hughes. I countered his "proper biologist" with Colin Wright's talk on the reality of the sex binary, and apparently he voluntarily left his post because his horrific and unscientific views on sex were widely criticised by all the other biologists. "And it is not just that Colin Right is an asshole, it is that his transphobia and racism is not supported by the actual science." Pffffffff...
The other revelation - while I was trying to gently help him realise that there is indeed a kind of conspiracy (and he was telling me not to be a stupid conspiracy theorist taken in by all the right wing propaganda, e.g. from Mia Hughes...) was that after everything I brought up he responded to with a screenshot (his "facts and science"), and I was thinking, What is this site?
"Where are you getting all this?" I asked. He didn't say, but after a few more, I realised he was just typing my statement into some AI bot as a question: "How many girls are having double mastectomies and boys getting castrated?" - "Does gender medicine reduce suicidality?" - and the nice kind AI was coming out with all the PC responses, including citings of all the crap studies the "gender studies" graduates are churning out. The AI designers are almost certainly pandering to the trans lobby for their own financial gains, too (it avoids legal issues, at least). That is some scary shit, people (including my friend the "philosopher") relegating their thinking to overhyped search engines created by the richest people on the planet.
Wow. Bravo for engaging for so long. I find this to be horrifying and it makes me feel defeated. Even though I am forever changed and nearly ruined from this cult ideology hooking its claws into my daughter, my friends defend it, deny it, rebutt my claims, excuse it all away. I admire your effort.
There's still a part of me that worries that I'm just missing something about the whole gender topic but until I have my moment of enlightenment* I'm going to keep judging situations like this as if they are just totally wrong.
The longer this goes on the harder it's going to be for people like your (ex, sorry) friend to walk back not just the crap they've talked but the way they've treated the people brave enough to dissent.
On some level I wonder if turning the Dems (and other leftwing parties) into unelectable rump organisations possibility forever will be enough to wake them up, or do they have to be given somewhere (Canada, New Zealand, California) where they can run their stupid ideas into the ground with the whole world watching, but not intervening until asked, before they might realise just how absurd they've become.
Thanks for that reply, it's encouraging. It reminded me that there are places this madness hasn't infected and those that have, and it's hard to bear the thought, but the latter may have to go through the hell their philosophy leads to before they wake up (as you say, Canada, New Zealand or California). My worse scenario, which is probably unlikely, is that the whole of the Western world eventually gets ground down by the stupidity of our 'large language models' and the narcissism of activists, actually to the point of a kind of social-credit techno-communism (not unlike China's, even perhaps without the roadside death squads, just politically-correct stamps on passports and employment visas).
I absolutely understand the doubt - I've had it in spades as I gradually came to my almost-final conclusion/donkey-kick (LOL). The world through the looking-glass is so insane we're bound to question whether it's us. And scepticism is my fundamental position, so I'm always open to reassessing. I was watching Helen Joyce reacting to quotes from parents of "trans" kids, and noticed how she could be accused of arguing from within an arbitrary cultural norm. She says things like, "It's the parents' job to teach their children, not follow whatever the kid says." - but says who? It's important that we keep looking at those kinds of things we just think of as our base facts of life and check why we believe them. And I have had discussions with a parent of a trans-identifying adult who was absolutely sold on the idea we should believe every goddamn thing our kids say. That is how ludicrous it gets. Until someone wakes us up with a comment (it might have been Joyce, I'm not sure) like, "You keep hearing how children are so wise. They're not. Kids are stupid. Mine thinks he's a car."
Oh geez! This is one of the scariest things about these LLMs: they just scoop up garbage and spit it out. And they are programmed to attack "transphobia" and "racism" etc.
Someone explained why anti-gender-medicine people are called "racists" but now I forgot because it's so nuts--it came up on the episode discussing the protests outside the Skrmetti hearing (was it Lisa or Ben who explained?).
Sounds like it's better to disengage unless you can bring yourself to do the listening thing without providing any factual information to contradict him.
I much appreciate your reply. I know this is nothing compared to what some of these real campaigners and journalists here - Ben and the others - go through, I just lost an argument with a deluded fool I thought was smart, and he's not a close friend or anything.
Interesting suggestion about doing the "listening thing". I wish I had the time and patience to do that (and the self discipline, because I'd be stepping in and arguing!). But I did think it would be best to do that with him (because he prides himself on his philosophical logic) - just keep asking those Socratic questions. At some point I think he'd have to recognise he holds incompatible views.
The race thing puzzled me, because all I'd heard about the race issue and woke philosophy was the "white privilege" versus "non-white oppression" line, for which it seems they would have to be "race realists." But no, it occurred to me that race could be a mere social construct (that "white-identifying people" presumably) came up with to lord it over those they/we imagine are "non-white".
It's a little like the fact that I can say, "Men can't get pregnant. Men can't have sex and produce children." and he (or his favourite AI) can say, "Yes, some men can get pregnant. Some transmen get pregnant." To him, "men" includes "transmen", and some of those indeed do get pregnant, because they're what we all used to call "women."
The nice little qualification, "some" reminded me, yes, these are the ones who haven't been sterilized by medical malpractice.
So many different perspectives and experiences--it's interesting to mull the overlaps and the disjunctures.
Re Jamie's story: I could relate to being called difficult or headstrong too because I also had ideas or thoughts or opinions about things--seemed sexist to me at the time, too. I'm still mad about it!
I'm not sure we need to nail down "gender dysphoria": the clinicians will just keep changing what it means so as to capture more people in its net.
As to Lisa's observations of wild animals: when I was nursing my child (through toddlerhood), we'd occasionally see a nursing pair at a zoo. But what blew my mind was taking my child to art museums and seeing dozens of paintings of the Virgin Mary nursing her child (including toddler Jesus) and realizing how rare it was to see this basic human/animal practice represented at all. Yes, as a culture we seem to try to forget that we are also animals.
I love the intro music! Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah! I loved seeing Lisa having such a great time. It was fun laughing with you all. I've been reading Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt and The Collapse of Parenting by Dr. L. Sax for a parenting book club and your discussion really had me thinking. The newish collision of the nonconformity gay/lesbian vs queer theory dysfunction, and the been-around-forever men's fetish world was interesting to see unfold in your discussion. I would have your viewers watch this podcast with Andrew Gold and Dr. Az Hakeem talk about how "You're wrong about why people change gender" before your next meetup https://youtu.be/whvkEmLi9aQ?si=7x85_eEbXI85Qhv-
A detransitioner contacted me 2 days ago. When she was a teenager, this autistic-diagnosed 14-15 year old girl thought her grief after her father's death from cancer would be relieved by "transitioning." She is now walking with a walker after detransitioning; the testosterone injections into her legs caused necropathy and muscle atrophy--not side effects she was warned of. So. A newly adult female is now walking as did my 94 year old mother. When will you all stop with your "true trans" BS?
You all inspired me to come up with my own definition of "gender dysphoria":
"A feeling of distress a person experiences when they believe they don't align with the standards or expectations society holds for members of their sex category."
So smart Jamie about how the pronoun circles function as social pressure to ID as trans! When i believed in gender, i spoke with another female who was questioning her gender who said she didn’t like pronoun circles because they put her on the spot to make a decision about her identity. If you’re questioning your gender (which so so many people privately are, especially gay people), saying a sex based pronoun for yourself can set off a whole cascade of self criticism as if you’re not being true to yourself. Constant pronoun circles DO encourage trans identification.
Is the widespread adoption of general ideology simply a rebranded form of narcissism “rainbow narcissism”? If we assume that adherents to these ideologies are motivated by self-interest, and their behavior aligns with common characteristics attributed to narcissists - detachment from reality and an attempt to impose their distorted view on others - is it not possible that they’re merely rebranding a toxic mental state as a philosophical or ideological framework?
Thank you for another excellent (and at times very funny) podcast! An observation: When Jamie said the girls' team was told not to bring their trophies in because it upset the boys... well, welcome to patriarchy (or use whatever term you prefer). That's just one of the obvious signs of where and how we've lived, for centuries. It's not radical feminism to say this either, it's just the way it is, the way it has been. It has its effect on boys too, think about it. How else can you fully explain the nonconforming male experiences of Ben and Cori as well as girls like Jamie and probably just about every kid and adult since this all began. See it or don't see it, it's still a huge part of human lives and it's not good for us. Egalitarian tribes do not do this to their children. Nonconformity can be a strength, not a weakness. Diversity bolsters survival and dare I say, happiness. LGB is natural, it can be helpful even. The tribe will still reproduce, will not over-reproduce and probably also not go out and hunt down and destroy other tribes (though some would say that's a drawback to that tribe's survival long-term). Anyway, sorry for what's turned out to be a rant. Keep on going, good people!❤️👍🏼
P.S. When Jamie feels shame at the way she went along with the pronoun thing at work, it's their shame, not hers. It's group intimidation by people of low social intelligence. Genocides have happened sadly because of such intimidation. So glad she made it out of that and has become the hero she has. All of you are, in your own unique ways, heroes. The world needs more of you.
Hmm, lots being processed this week. I found that interesting. It's not strictly "informed," but personal conjectures, like Cori's about (many?) adult TIMs wanting to vicariously enjoy the childhood feminization they never got, are important to raise. I guess the problem is that they'll remain conjecures without some science to back them up. Still, that where most science begins.
Jamie, your story made me feel angry at the homophobic society that caused you so much grief and had you teetering on the edge of the 'black hole' of trans. Your whistle-blowing article was one of the most impressive things I came across as I was investigating the phenomenon and wondering why there seemed to be people telling me ridiculous things (beyond the event horizon, I now realise).
I object to the 'teach your kids to skin a squirrel' macho bullshit. Teach your kids about biology and ecology, and to be vegetarians.
I have a feeling that if Jamie had pushed Cori at bit harder about the LotR show she's watching things would've descended into a total nerd fight of the sort we haven't seen since the days of the old Star Wars vs Star Trek battles. My LotR friends are all basically checked out on shows like RoP, and that new animated film, kinda like how my Star Wars friends are all checked out on Disney Star Wars...
Y’all, I really like what you have going here. A fresh blend of your professional and personal expertise(s). (What is the plural of expertise?) I am a mom who is seriously struggling with this scandal. I have been so relieved to have discovered each of you in your work to uncover this scandals roots, it’s harms to children and vulnerable young people and your work to bring your findings to the greater public.
Two years ago I began listening to Eliza while on long walks. I stopped in my tracks when she said something about ‘the alter of gender ideology.’ Yes. A cult. I should know, as my mom is in one. Jamie, your whistleblower article was the pivotal moment where my husband finally engaged and realized that this was a serious cultural problem and that our daughter was in real trouble. Until then, I was a lone mother, getting all of the hate and abuse and doing ALL of the panic research. Cori, I really like listening to your thoughtful perspective and questions. I feel you are very measured and intelligent. (I was yelling at Brianna Wu during your recent interview, you were rational). Lisa and Ben, I really like your writing and research. I look forward to your books. My first act of activism was attending the Skrmetti v. Biden rally at the Supreme Court. It was overwhelming and a new world for me, but I hope to do more. This $hit has really struck a nerve. The betrayal that was happening by our society while I was busy raising my 4 kids is unfathomable. Thanks for the laughs here and there.
Thank you so, so much. We really appreciate the feedback--and your kind words!
Thank you, Jamie, for sharing your squirmy feelings and thoughts about social contagion in your origin story. Of course we are all prone to “social contagion,” a weird term when you think about it, because all humans in all eras are social animals. It’s not an infection, it’s just how we are, to be influenced by our social worlds. We do not swim alone. We have the hubris to believe we are smarter, more advanced, and certainly way cooler than previous generations, but this superiority is bullshit. Peaking exposes this as bullshit. I think that many people formerly “on the left” who have peaked about trans issues or social justice ideology can feel this kind of shame and intense self-chastisement.
It’s actually an enormous gift for emotional/spiritual growth, though the shame piece must transform and be replaced with strength and humility. Some kinds of personalities, perhaps like Jamie’s and I know like my own, are more prone to embrace ideologies that seem “on the right side of history” with zeal and gusto and intelligence. I’m of a different generation than Jamie, but if I’d been a few decades younger, I’d have been right there ruminating endlessly about whether I was still a she/her or a they/them or maybe I should try T and consider being a he/him? One of my millennial cousins, the one I most relate to as a personality, has been the most publicly condemning of my views about gender, gently and carefully expressed as they have been. It makes me feel sad, it makes me mad, but really, I can’t blame her too much because she could be me if I was born 30 years later. Conservative people in this fight are not immune to their own traps of “social contagion” either, so it’s not a particularly lefty flaw.
The traditions of the left hold wisdom (such as caring for the most vulnerable or caring about women’s rights and dignity) which the five of you continue to embrace. Maybe as a culture we have an opportunity to grow and be stronger because of this self-knowledge.
This episode made me nod my head so much it almost fell off. Also laugh (at the safari banter and Lisa's looseness) and tear up (as did the priors) at your backstories. Yes, Ben, this is all, or should by now certainly be, 101 level. What else will it take for more people to understand? Jamie's experience with the pronoun ritual is heartbreaking and in some ways what I tried to convey to a now ex friend (who kept emailing me with "her pronouns" in her signature and then got furiously offended when I tried to discuss what she meant by it and thought it was conveying) about how the "be kind brigade" or benevolent malevolence (as I keep calling it) is actually harmful on so many homophobic, misogynistic, regressive levels. Thank you for these discussions.
Benevolent malevolence - this is exactly it!
Regarding Jamie Reed's comments on experiencing gender dysphoria related to being a Lesbian in a homophobic society - Looking at the earliest Transsexuals - they were gay men. Transition to another sex was THE original extreme Conversion Therapy for Gay men experiencing Homophobia is a dangerously homophobic world.
It's been a weird 24 hours. After a quiet few months for me "gender-wise", I just realised that a longstanding Facebook friend is up to his armpits in woke nonsense. During a discussion on his group (on the hypothesis that we don't have free will), he said something about how changes in definitions of terms take a generation or so, and (stupidly, assuming he was wise and informed, rather than just nerdy-smart) I said, 'Well, unless you're rich and influential. Then you can change everyone's definition of "man" and "woman" pretty damn quick.' I thought he'd LOL.
He was clearly deeply shocked, asking, "You're not one of those t-phobes are you?" I was at one point likened to J K Rowling. That's how awful I am.
I tried discussing the issues (also saying maybe that wasn't the place and shall we email?), but by the next morning he booted me off the group for expressing racist views (He assumed I was a "race realist", "right wing", etc., etc.) some of which I tried to straighten out. I am a race realist. Not a complete fuckwit.
He first sent me to watch a godawful "biologist" ranting for an hour about how different species procreate, and dealing at length with what "gender" is - the usual stereotypes - and then to some worse phone in manned by "real Trans people" (and I'm pretty sure they were real people, though clearly not the sex they were trying to pass as). I should phone them, he said, so they could "gently put me down" with their science.
Is it worth talking to any of these people? When - if - you get into these places with someone (maybe someone you thought was on the same wavelength), do you have anything that makes a scrap of difference? A study? An article? A video? Obviously sites like this. My first mention was Eliza's substack, and I posted a short video of Mia Hughes likening trans to the other socially contagious medical scandals. I got a potted character assassination of Mia Hughes. I countered his "proper biologist" with Colin Wright's talk on the reality of the sex binary, and apparently he voluntarily left his post because his horrific and unscientific views on sex were widely criticised by all the other biologists. "And it is not just that Colin Right is an asshole, it is that his transphobia and racism is not supported by the actual science." Pffffffff...
The other revelation - while I was trying to gently help him realise that there is indeed a kind of conspiracy (and he was telling me not to be a stupid conspiracy theorist taken in by all the right wing propaganda, e.g. from Mia Hughes...) was that after everything I brought up he responded to with a screenshot (his "facts and science"), and I was thinking, What is this site?
"Where are you getting all this?" I asked. He didn't say, but after a few more, I realised he was just typing my statement into some AI bot as a question: "How many girls are having double mastectomies and boys getting castrated?" - "Does gender medicine reduce suicidality?" - and the nice kind AI was coming out with all the PC responses, including citings of all the crap studies the "gender studies" graduates are churning out. The AI designers are almost certainly pandering to the trans lobby for their own financial gains, too (it avoids legal issues, at least). That is some scary shit, people (including my friend the "philosopher") relegating their thinking to overhyped search engines created by the richest people on the planet.
We have our work cut out. Happy New Year!
Wow. Bravo for engaging for so long. I find this to be horrifying and it makes me feel defeated. Even though I am forever changed and nearly ruined from this cult ideology hooking its claws into my daughter, my friends defend it, deny it, rebutt my claims, excuse it all away. I admire your effort.
❤️
There's still a part of me that worries that I'm just missing something about the whole gender topic but until I have my moment of enlightenment* I'm going to keep judging situations like this as if they are just totally wrong.
The longer this goes on the harder it's going to be for people like your (ex, sorry) friend to walk back not just the crap they've talked but the way they've treated the people brave enough to dissent.
On some level I wonder if turning the Dems (and other leftwing parties) into unelectable rump organisations possibility forever will be enough to wake them up, or do they have to be given somewhere (Canada, New Zealand, California) where they can run their stupid ideas into the ground with the whole world watching, but not intervening until asked, before they might realise just how absurd they've become.
*like getting kicked in the head by a donkey...
Thanks for that reply, it's encouraging. It reminded me that there are places this madness hasn't infected and those that have, and it's hard to bear the thought, but the latter may have to go through the hell their philosophy leads to before they wake up (as you say, Canada, New Zealand or California). My worse scenario, which is probably unlikely, is that the whole of the Western world eventually gets ground down by the stupidity of our 'large language models' and the narcissism of activists, actually to the point of a kind of social-credit techno-communism (not unlike China's, even perhaps without the roadside death squads, just politically-correct stamps on passports and employment visas).
I absolutely understand the doubt - I've had it in spades as I gradually came to my almost-final conclusion/donkey-kick (LOL). The world through the looking-glass is so insane we're bound to question whether it's us. And scepticism is my fundamental position, so I'm always open to reassessing. I was watching Helen Joyce reacting to quotes from parents of "trans" kids, and noticed how she could be accused of arguing from within an arbitrary cultural norm. She says things like, "It's the parents' job to teach their children, not follow whatever the kid says." - but says who? It's important that we keep looking at those kinds of things we just think of as our base facts of life and check why we believe them. And I have had discussions with a parent of a trans-identifying adult who was absolutely sold on the idea we should believe every goddamn thing our kids say. That is how ludicrous it gets. Until someone wakes us up with a comment (it might have been Joyce, I'm not sure) like, "You keep hearing how children are so wise. They're not. Kids are stupid. Mine thinks he's a car."
Sorry you went through that.
Oh geez! This is one of the scariest things about these LLMs: they just scoop up garbage and spit it out. And they are programmed to attack "transphobia" and "racism" etc.
Someone explained why anti-gender-medicine people are called "racists" but now I forgot because it's so nuts--it came up on the episode discussing the protests outside the Skrmetti hearing (was it Lisa or Ben who explained?).
Sounds like it's better to disengage unless you can bring yourself to do the listening thing without providing any factual information to contradict him.
I much appreciate your reply. I know this is nothing compared to what some of these real campaigners and journalists here - Ben and the others - go through, I just lost an argument with a deluded fool I thought was smart, and he's not a close friend or anything.
Interesting suggestion about doing the "listening thing". I wish I had the time and patience to do that (and the self discipline, because I'd be stepping in and arguing!). But I did think it would be best to do that with him (because he prides himself on his philosophical logic) - just keep asking those Socratic questions. At some point I think he'd have to recognise he holds incompatible views.
The race thing puzzled me, because all I'd heard about the race issue and woke philosophy was the "white privilege" versus "non-white oppression" line, for which it seems they would have to be "race realists." But no, it occurred to me that race could be a mere social construct (that "white-identifying people" presumably) came up with to lord it over those they/we imagine are "non-white".
It's a little like the fact that I can say, "Men can't get pregnant. Men can't have sex and produce children." and he (or his favourite AI) can say, "Yes, some men can get pregnant. Some transmen get pregnant." To him, "men" includes "transmen", and some of those indeed do get pregnant, because they're what we all used to call "women."
The nice little qualification, "some" reminded me, yes, these are the ones who haven't been sterilized by medical malpractice.
These conversations are fascinating--thank you!
So many different perspectives and experiences--it's interesting to mull the overlaps and the disjunctures.
Re Jamie's story: I could relate to being called difficult or headstrong too because I also had ideas or thoughts or opinions about things--seemed sexist to me at the time, too. I'm still mad about it!
I'm not sure we need to nail down "gender dysphoria": the clinicians will just keep changing what it means so as to capture more people in its net.
As to Lisa's observations of wild animals: when I was nursing my child (through toddlerhood), we'd occasionally see a nursing pair at a zoo. But what blew my mind was taking my child to art museums and seeing dozens of paintings of the Virgin Mary nursing her child (including toddler Jesus) and realizing how rare it was to see this basic human/animal practice represented at all. Yes, as a culture we seem to try to forget that we are also animals.
I am ALL for as many as possible Dik-dik pics!
I love the intro music! Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah! I loved seeing Lisa having such a great time. It was fun laughing with you all. I've been reading Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt and The Collapse of Parenting by Dr. L. Sax for a parenting book club and your discussion really had me thinking. The newish collision of the nonconformity gay/lesbian vs queer theory dysfunction, and the been-around-forever men's fetish world was interesting to see unfold in your discussion. I would have your viewers watch this podcast with Andrew Gold and Dr. Az Hakeem talk about how "You're wrong about why people change gender" before your next meetup https://youtu.be/whvkEmLi9aQ?si=7x85_eEbXI85Qhv-
A detransitioner contacted me 2 days ago. When she was a teenager, this autistic-diagnosed 14-15 year old girl thought her grief after her father's death from cancer would be relieved by "transitioning." She is now walking with a walker after detransitioning; the testosterone injections into her legs caused necropathy and muscle atrophy--not side effects she was warned of. So. A newly adult female is now walking as did my 94 year old mother. When will you all stop with your "true trans" BS?
You all inspired me to come up with my own definition of "gender dysphoria":
"A feeling of distress a person experiences when they believe they don't align with the standards or expectations society holds for members of their sex category."
So smart Jamie about how the pronoun circles function as social pressure to ID as trans! When i believed in gender, i spoke with another female who was questioning her gender who said she didn’t like pronoun circles because they put her on the spot to make a decision about her identity. If you’re questioning your gender (which so so many people privately are, especially gay people), saying a sex based pronoun for yourself can set off a whole cascade of self criticism as if you’re not being true to yourself. Constant pronoun circles DO encourage trans identification.
Is the widespread adoption of general ideology simply a rebranded form of narcissism “rainbow narcissism”? If we assume that adherents to these ideologies are motivated by self-interest, and their behavior aligns with common characteristics attributed to narcissists - detachment from reality and an attempt to impose their distorted view on others - is it not possible that they’re merely rebranding a toxic mental state as a philosophical or ideological framework?
Thank you for another excellent (and at times very funny) podcast! An observation: When Jamie said the girls' team was told not to bring their trophies in because it upset the boys... well, welcome to patriarchy (or use whatever term you prefer). That's just one of the obvious signs of where and how we've lived, for centuries. It's not radical feminism to say this either, it's just the way it is, the way it has been. It has its effect on boys too, think about it. How else can you fully explain the nonconforming male experiences of Ben and Cori as well as girls like Jamie and probably just about every kid and adult since this all began. See it or don't see it, it's still a huge part of human lives and it's not good for us. Egalitarian tribes do not do this to their children. Nonconformity can be a strength, not a weakness. Diversity bolsters survival and dare I say, happiness. LGB is natural, it can be helpful even. The tribe will still reproduce, will not over-reproduce and probably also not go out and hunt down and destroy other tribes (though some would say that's a drawback to that tribe's survival long-term). Anyway, sorry for what's turned out to be a rant. Keep on going, good people!❤️👍🏼
P.S. When Jamie feels shame at the way she went along with the pronoun thing at work, it's their shame, not hers. It's group intimidation by people of low social intelligence. Genocides have happened sadly because of such intimidation. So glad she made it out of that and has become the hero she has. All of you are, in your own unique ways, heroes. The world needs more of you.
Was Cori thinking Kim Petras as the German trans singer? Transition started pretty early and has had a bad effect on his/her health (or so I heard).
Hmm, lots being processed this week. I found that interesting. It's not strictly "informed," but personal conjectures, like Cori's about (many?) adult TIMs wanting to vicariously enjoy the childhood feminization they never got, are important to raise. I guess the problem is that they'll remain conjecures without some science to back them up. Still, that where most science begins.
Jamie, your story made me feel angry at the homophobic society that caused you so much grief and had you teetering on the edge of the 'black hole' of trans. Your whistle-blowing article was one of the most impressive things I came across as I was investigating the phenomenon and wondering why there seemed to be people telling me ridiculous things (beyond the event horizon, I now realise).
I object to the 'teach your kids to skin a squirrel' macho bullshit. Teach your kids about biology and ecology, and to be vegetarians.
Sorry that was all a bit mangled. I'm toast too.
I have a feeling that if Jamie had pushed Cori at bit harder about the LotR show she's watching things would've descended into a total nerd fight of the sort we haven't seen since the days of the old Star Wars vs Star Trek battles. My LotR friends are all basically checked out on shows like RoP, and that new animated film, kinda like how my Star Wars friends are all checked out on Disney Star Wars...
16 minutes in and still waiting for content. Just getting annoying giggling.
Did you stick with it? I've been waiting for the final review!